#108 Tommy Robinson: Dangerous or Misunderstood?

Listen: Spotify • Apple Podcasts • Fountain
Watch: YouTube • Rumble

Tommy Robinson is one of the UK’s most controversial public figures. Demonised by the press, jailed repeatedly, and banned from social media. In this episode, we talk about free speech, grooming gangs, government lies, working-class rage & the weaponisation of the judiciary. We cover the media smears & public perception, his prison experiences & assassination attempts, the truth about grooming scandals & cover-ups, the fight for local order, why he thinks Britain is on the edge of revolt, his criticisms of Farage, Reform UK & the case for Advance

---

• Transcript

  Peter McCormack

  didn't even smoke much before. It was like smoking, we're drinking, okay? And then these

  Tommy Robinson

  vapes, no, the vapes. Oh, the vapes is terrible. The vapes all the kids, they do them, all different colors, all different flavors.

  Peter McCormack

  Is bad. Unicorn. Everyone, even my even my daughter, discovered, like they've all fucking doing it. But it's like it's a new craze, because you can do it in bed and you can do it on your sleeve in an airplane, you can get away with smoking. Good to meet Tommy, good to be met. Good, uh, good result for living yesterday. Last

  Tommy Robinson

  one nailed to Cardiff. You're gonna go up, Joe, what? And I missed it yesterday. It would have been the first game I should have gone to just the first time I've been in the country. Do you get to go often? I usually go every game when I'm here. Yeah? So, yeah. I love game. And my daughter, my youngest, 14, is lute mad the son. Don't care. The eldest not too bothered, because he's 16. She's 18, but my 14 year old called her pop Poppy. Luton Lennon.

  Peter McCormack

  First game I went to was Luton? Was it? Yeah. So I grew up a Liverpool fan.

  Tommy Robinson

  Absolutely explain that. Just explain that. Well, I'm from Bedford, yeah. Still, that's that doesn't get us anywhere closer to why you support Liverpool? It's probably why

  Peter McCormack

  I bought football club. No, I support so when I was a kid, yep, my great granddad's uncle. No, no, none of that. No, no, I can't give you any good I should have been a Blackburn fan. That's who my dad supports. It was. It's a really random story. My brother was an Arsenal fan first team we ever see, but I used to get arsenal and Liverpool mixed up. My mum took me to my mum took me to the market to buy one of those old bags. Do you need the old footy bags? They were like two colors anyway. Got the wrong one. Got a Liverpool. So that's

  Tommy Robinson

  it. That's always say to lads like him, sat there in the corner, my mate was coming me sports arsenal. I said, if I supported Argentina, you'd say you're English. Why support Argentina? So when I meet people in Luton, for example, who support Man United, or saying, I just think, how do you have any affinity with that C i I'm quite tribal. So my thing is, I'm Luton in saying I was a lead fan until I was about 1011 I

  Peter McCormack

  didn't, but Bedford has never had a team in the Football League.

  Tommy Robinson

  Yeah, I do understand clubs that aren't, don't have club, don't have their own

  Peter McCormack

  club, and a lot of my mates are poor Loon, but I just, I never felt the connection with it so but I did say to my dad when I was kid, I said, I'm going to buy Bedford and get my football league. And so that's what we've done. We bought a

  Tommy Robinson

  team. And I've I heard, I didn't realize the big route. I've heard the word going around, bed for the richest club. Now, bed for this. Bed for that. I didn't know it was you. You just said, and we've been winding up the Luton fans. He doesn't like

  Peter McCormack

  it when I call him a small club. We play in a field, right? It's pretty much a field. There's two Bedfords next to each other, next door, we're the closest to there's a gym there, isn't it? Yeah? Conor trained the box there. Yeah? The boxing gym, yeah, Louis, okay. You know everyone, yeah, well, so I said we'll get us in the Football League, and now that's who I support. But Luton was the first game went to in the old plastic pitch. Okay, Luton, 131

  Tommy Robinson

  let's perform my time the plastic pitch. Good. Talk to you, man. We're gonna plug start off of just a massive plug, because do it. They're my books, four books, my autobiography. First one, which I thought things would calm down off this, I end it on, wish me luck. It's Wish me luck in staying alive. So I've managed to stay alive. That was 2015 a ball. Now it's all about the English. It's just about my life. Look at you. I know. Look. How old are you in that? Uh, that's, well, it's 2020, no, it's 2015 that book I pulled out this. This brings it up to date, which is from 2015 to bring up to date, which is called silence about all the efforts Sean mad. I'm writing another one now. So I'll be on my third autobiography. I'm 42 and then the latest one is called political prisoner. I want to have it out for

  Peter McCormack

  Christmas. Is that to do with the thing we can't probably talk about because of I can talk about anything. Well, there's some things you

  Tommy Robinson

  can't, no, because you don't want I can skirt around it, but, yeah, you're right. I have an injunction, which would land me straight in jail for telling the truth about certain issues. Okay, the truths are in those books. Maybe that's why Amazon. So the mad thing is, this is still available on Amazon. Yeah, I. Yes, that one there silence banned Muhammad's Quran, which is literally, this is the Quran. Yeah, it's not. I haven't adapted it. I put the Quran in chronological order, and I put historical references by all world leaders into talking about Islam, because what's happened now is people change. They talk about this interpretation of Islam, whereas historically, and you know, the phrase Islam origin of peace. That's that was never said before George W Bush. I mean, I challenge anyone go and find anyone stating Islam is original peace. Once George W Bush said it after September 11. That lie has just been pushed around the world. It's a bit like so, yeah, that's it. And that puts the that puts the Quran in chronological order, is that banned. That's banned from Amazon. You can buy, you can buy Hitler's book, mine camp in 20 languages. Can't buy my autobiography. You can't buy Mohammed. And I don't, I don't understand why they've banned this, because this is simply they should ban all the grants if they're banning this, because this is just the command. But you shouldn't ban books. I don't think you should ban any books. No, no. I think you should be able to read them, get have a look at them. There's nothing hatred in these. And this is manifesto, which is the latest one. But all of them went all of them books went to number one bestseller before they were banned.

  Unknown Speaker

  Free speech, real democracy, peaceful disobedience, that's it.

  Tommy Robinson

  And they said, look at the quote on here from the quote on here from Boris Johnson, yeah. It's before Boris Johnson come Prime Minister. Remember what it says in the Holy Quran. Boris Johnson quote him, yeah, slay the unbelievers. Wherever you find them. We will perform jihad against the kaphar, the unbelievers. That's a quote from Boris Johnson's book, 72 virgins. So they said, they said, Wise. Why are these abandoned? They don't give no reason. They just ban

  Peter McCormack

  them. So you see, you're worse than Hitler now, well, apparently, yeah, you know.

  Unknown Speaker

  All right, listen, there's, I didn't get them@trbooks.co.uk

  Peter McCormack

  that was my plug. My plug. Oh, we'll put it in the show trbooks.co.uk so there's a bunch of people going to see I've done an interview with you, right? And there's a group who are going to love it because they love you. They think they love what you stand for. They'll have everything you're doing. And there's a group of just gonna hate the fact that I'm even sat in the room with you. They're like, Why? Why would you associate with them? Why would you give them a platform? And they won't give the interview a chance. They'll actually hold it. I'll say they'll hold it against me. Oh, Tom Connor, you won't. The mad

  Tommy Robinson

  thing is, if they actually just listen, if they actually just give it a bit of time to listen, they'll think, okay, he's right about everything.

  Peter McCormack

  So let me show you this. You should read this so you don't do that private security in Bedford. Yep, there's one guy who's got his knickers in a twist right. Posted this on Facebook yesterday. He's been scouring through you only need to read it up to point one. Read it. Read it out to people

  Tommy Robinson

  who Emma, to whoever has the authority to question Mr. Peter McCormack, private security patrols on the streets of Bedford. Could you please ask him why he applied to visit Tommy Robinson in prison? To elaborate. How did, how would he

  Peter McCormack

  know that? Well, so when they banned, when they said no, okay, but he's

  Tommy Robinson

  elaborate on the following exchange, okay, is someone caught in Tommy Robinson in prison advocating more guns on the street and not challenging thinly veiled racism, the kind of person you want leading see what you're real I've taken into it now, is he a Christian terrorism? Why do I know that name? Seems a lot of people are napping. You're walking into it, because the minute you step into this arena, you're going to face it from all angles. He's going to come under attack. You're going to have your reputation, your name slandered, as I said, you can be demonized at every angle because you're trying to do something good for better. Something good for

  Peter McCormack

  Bedford. Well, I've so I've definitely been a shit to you. You might not know. No, I'm aware. You're aware. You used to slag me off. I used to slag you off. I did. I did, I did. I used to, because I saw what the media said, and just thought, no, that's not my kind of guy. I don't that's my shit. So I used to slag you off, and then I can't remember what the turning point was, but there was a point. Do you know what I think it was? I think it was at the time. You know, when you were on Question time in the audience?

  Tommy Robinson

  Oh, yeah. So I was in the audience. It's a free speech that was a free speech program where they will just call me a racist Joe. They got me on that show. They told me I was on the panel. Then when I turned up for the show, they put me in the audience, right? And this how stupid they are. They put me in the audience, and I knew what was going to happen, and they put and I had my cousin with me. I said, No, I'm sitting on my own. And they said, What? I said, sit me on my own. Yeah? Put me on my own because I know exactly. I knew I always covered. I know what you're going to do, yeah. And I also know the British public don't like a bully, and the British public do not like so I know what they're going to do. I know they don't have any don't have any argument to it. I'm there to talk about grooming. This was back then I was talking, trying to discuss grooming. I think the show was in Newcastle. We had an event in Newcastle, so I'm sitting there talking, and then just come under attack from absolutely everyone, include, you know what's mad is the labor councilor behind me, Dipu Ahmed. His name was, this is where just let time carry on and all these people will be exposed, yeah, dip who's in jail sexually harassing women. Yeah, that's dip who's having a go at me, calling me an extremist that they actually applauded. A bloke said I needed to be put a Muslim convert said I should be put on an island and bombed with anthrax. And the process. Thing of the show, people like this, and I'm sitting there like, I'm just here trying to put across an argument that

  Peter McCormack

  no one wants to have. Do you know what it was? It was, it was the rape games. Yeah, once that really kicked off, I went down the Tommy Robinson rabbit hole. I started watching all your old interviews, the Paxman one, that one, and I was like, fuck. I think I've, I think I've just believed what the picture is that people have said, and rather than they're about to build that picture of you now. Pete, well, yeah, so, yeah. I mean, like, firstly, I didn't delete my tweets because I think it's important to leave what you said there. Yep. And so, God, what did you say? Tell me, oh God, it better not be about the height. No, I saw that, I probably just said, Oh, he doesn't represent England. I was like, fuck. And I was like, I've got it wrong, and now they're coming after me. I was like, I think I get it now. So yeah, firstly, sorry. I was a dick, but I

  Tommy Robinson

  don't need to apologize. But I say to most people, even who approached me in the street, even the most recent incident at St Pancras, yeah, I don't blame him, because if I read the media, and I believe the media, I'd hate me when I had the English Defense League, yeah, see if I listened to them, I'd be out on the street against English Defense League coming into my city. I think, no, these racists, these Nazis, because that's what the media told everyone, yeah. And if you buy that media, could had it, you know, the trigonometry lads? Yeah. He said the same. He goes, I just, I just believe what they said about you. I just believed it all till I went down the rabbit hole myself.

  Peter McCormack

  I think the trick guys made a really good point, though. I thought actually they nailed it. They said, it's a you haven't been saying much different from Douglas Murray, but you're working class, and Douglas is some articulate, well educated, uh, most articulate, I think, in the country, yeah, and, but you've been saying the same thing, but Douglas gets a pass with a lot of people. You didn't, it's just a class issue. Yeah, it's a class. You found any, you found any, you'll find them be fucking, well, embarrassing. Oh, come on, better off screen.

  Tommy Robinson

  Oh, has he found one? He found one? Oh, god, oh, you getting up on it? Yeah, he was, he was a guy who paid for the banner of English Defense League founders. And what a surprise. Uh, Jake, that's not too bad. And, no, Jake's a great lad from the left. I've probably said, you put someone up long, tall in there. I've

  Unknown Speaker

  probably said way worse than that. No, he'll find more. I remember,

  Tommy Robinson

  I remember. I remember you must have done interview, because someone sent me a link. This is going back years. Yeah, I just knew you were the Bitcoin guy from Bedford, yeah, which is near where I am anyway, yeah, someone must have asked you, saying, I don't know what's that pretty girl who was always doing? Was it the pretty girl we moved to America? He was always talking about Bitcoin. Oh, Layla. Layla Heiberg was one with her once.

  Peter McCormack

  No, no, okay, no, I fell out with her because she's full of shit. Firstly, she said she wrote something about London, right?

  Unknown Speaker

  And she says, my hometown. She's not from London, she's from

  Tommy Robinson

  Watford, right? I didn't know where she was from. Yeah, I knew that. So she come on an interview with me at a time when it was unfashionable to say they supported Tom Robinson, yes. So I don't know anything about her other than she went out on the limb and said, I don't really care. People say I agree with what you're saying. Yeah, fair play. And I thought, okay, fair play. I didn't know anything else about her. Just say she was pretty and spoke

  Peter McCormack

  about Bitcoin. So she put up this thing where she was like, I've just been to my hometown of London. I don't know what's happened. There's rainbow flags everywhere. The men of femme are all feminine and the women all masculine. And I was like, hold on. You live in Miami. Miami is the gayest place in the world, like, literally, the gayest place I've ever been. Yeah? And I'm like, why are you saying that about London? And also, look, my sister's gay, right? There are places she feels safe being gay in this places she doesn't. She feels safe in London. And I'm like, you don't need it. Was just such an easy attack. So I called her out on it, and then we found out we don't talk anymore, but she's she's a bit, I'll be careful what I'll say, because she'll probably try and sue me. But the way she makes money, I'm not a fan, like, I like the Bitcoin, everything else is shit, all the other crypto shit. And she had, like, a trading group, and you paid to join a telegram group and but, yeah, I probably sacked off to her. I probably sacked off to everyone at a time. But then it doesn't matter. But then you go that you go down these rabbit holes, you're like, oh, fuck, I was wrong here. But that's I don't even just think it's you. I think it's life. It's like, there was a long time I trusted government. Thought government, we need government. Government's good, yeah, we just got to get the right party. And now they've lied to us. They care about us. Just need the right team. But they lie about everything. They lie about the food. They literally lie about everything. And then so you get to the point you realize I don't fucking trust anyone. But yeah, so sorry

  Tommy Robinson

  place we're at now, yeah, people don't trust anything. It's pretty dangerous as well, because they literally don't try. There could be a killer disease next week, and we'll be like, Oh, fuck off. Yeah, all right, yeah, nice try, yeah. And that's a bad situation where the entire British public no longer trusts the authority or the media? Yeah, any? Well,

  Peter McCormack

  I don't, I don't trust a lot of the media this. I think there's bits of the BBC that they do. Well, there's, there's certain reporters, or same with Sky, there's certain reporters. I like, Okay, you do an okay job. I just don't trust anything anymore. Tommy, and then so I went down the rabbit, and I was like, because I we had a. Uh, Raja Mia in here. He's good. It's fucking good. Yeah, very good. Very, very complimentary to you. So I went, I went down the rabbit. I was like, just watching your interviews, and I was like, you were right, you were right, you were right, you were right. You were saying, if you were saying things you were predicting the future, and things that you were predicting have happened, and you were doing it in the face of everyone hating you, slagging you off and giving you shit. And I was like, actually, that was pretty fucking courageous. And so, yeah, sorry about that. I leave up there, though, because I want people to know I don't hide.

  Tommy Robinson

  No, that's a bit that's it's great. And Joe, what my DMs? You know, if I pull up my DMs now, it's just full of people sensing, yeah, and DMS, my DMs are just full every day of people saying, I hated you. I'm sorry I was so I was so dismissive of what you were saying. But that mass that I I'd say there's a mass awakening happened, not just with regards to me, with regards to government, the lies, the media, the smears, the way they attack people, the way they demonize people, and people don't buy anymore. And I think that everything that's happened, I know this is bad to say, everything that's happened right now had to happen to get the public to where they are now, yes, as in, Lucy Conley had to go to jail

  Peter McCormack

  in the here we go. Here's another 120, 21 so it was a while ago.

  Tommy Robinson

  2021 the judge stated that his actions gave risk to a real risk, the cause of justice would be seriously impeded. Fun fact, Tom Robson changed his name from Stephen crystal. Yeah, he was on the name thing. We Okay, okay, first of all, you see, let's get something clear here. The judge stated that his actions gave rise to a real risk the course of justice, but they didn't. There was no risk. Yeah, so each of the judges, because originally they charged me on this, yeah, with risking the trial, but the judge's comments the next day, because he hadn't, when he sent it to me 30 months in prison, he hadn't even watched my live stream. Yeah, so he caught I'm outside court doing a live stream, talking about this, talking about the case. Yeah, everything I say is already in the public's domain. And fun fact, fun fact, the judge has no power to put reporting restrictions on information that's already in the public domain. Yeah, I knew this when I went there, so as I'm reporting, he pulled me inside, pulled me outside, from outside court, sentenced me to 13 months in prison without watching the video. Yeah, the next day, when they're they're back in court on the Monday, and the Muslims tried to say it's impeded their trial. His words, because we've got the transcripts. Yeah, I've now had the chance to watch the entirety of this video, nothing he says because I jeopardized his trial. It's like so nothing I said could have jeopardized the trial. Why am I sat in jail for 13 months? It's insane. I didn't report breach any reporting restriction, because the information I gave was already in the public domain. So then, when they finally released me from prison after 12 weeks of solitary confinement, they re prosecuted me a year later, I can get onto why they done that, but the year later, they re prosecute me, and they totally changed the reason I was prosecuted and went from jeopardizing the trial to causing alarm and distress to the pedophiles.

  Peter McCormack

  So my question to you, then, if you've gone through all of that for years of seeing what you've seen and the risks that you thought were there and so many people coming after you, first question is, how hard was that? But now, what's it like now, where, basically people like me are coming going, Uh, fuck, I'm sorry. Do you even do you think about and here's how they'd look if humans vanished. because the future depends on it.

  Tommy Robinson

  No, no in this Do you know what I think about you all know my story. Everyone knows my story, which I mean people that probably are like me. So everyone knows Lucy conley's story. Do we know the name of the other 50 people that were unlawfully put in prison, that have been beaten up in prison, attacked in prison? Attacked in prison, so you don't know their stories, so people know my story, and how hard was it when I faced the full onslaught of attack? Not very hard when you're meeting young girls who have been kidnapped and tortured and raped. Not very hard when you're meeting their mums, their dads, their brothers, their sisters. Yeah, so when you're looking at what they're going through, and it's always a way you think you've got hard life, until you look at someone else's so when I was surrounding myself for years, traveling the country, meeting people who are facing real problems me getting the odd punch on my nose, or people calling me a few nasty names, was nothing really in comparison, I sit and think I can sit there sometimes and try and start feeling sorry for myself, but now I just have to look at. Uh, the equivalents like, it's nothing really, even when people used to say about, Oh, you, he's a legend, I think, well, no one's firing bullets at me on a daily basis. Yeah, young men sign up and swear allegiance to our country and go to fight wars, unjust wars, many of the time for our military, getting paid 20,000 pounds a year with the chance of having their legs blown off, bombed away from their family. So even I've been in prison recently seven months, I didn't see my see my family. But lads who sign up to the military don't see their family for six months, 12 months, they're stationed all around the world. So again, I just tried to put it into a reality perspective. And it's not really, it's not really that. It's not that bad, it's not that bad. It has been bad, but there's worse. There's a lot worse. Yeah, there's a lot worse. So I have to put it into a and look at realistically. So

  Peter McCormack

  when you think about all your work, because I think of you now as a journalist, really, that'll trigger some people, can journalists?

  Tommy Robinson

  Well, when they say, not a journalist, I've made, like, literally, eight, nine feature length investigative documentaries that are better than anything the BBC can do on the issues that I investigate. Expose the BBC panorama documentaries. I don't know if you've watched that panorama, absolutely annoying. Adam. Exposed hope, not hate, who are far left. I exposed how they operate, how they create sources of information. Exposed rape gangs across Telford exposed a liar at the same time. I don't know if you watched the Phantom rape gang, which was the lady who falsely accused she was gang raped by Muslims up in the town of Barrow. That's a good documentary. I went up there to investigate it. I went up there to nail the Muslims, basically. But when I got up there, I started finding lie after lie after lie that she told, right? And then I put a documentary together, and then the police arrest me. They give me conditions, and at the end, it's the Muslim fellow who was falsely accused, said the only person who come up here and

  Peter McCormack

  help me was Tommy Robinson. So you expose you work both sides of it. Then I've worked

  Tommy Robinson

  both sides. Yeah, truth's the truth. So when I'm investigating it, if the truth doesn't match, I obviously had my agenda on certain things, which was to I'm looking at this gang, looking at a girl, thinking, right? I want to expose them. Let's go up there, investigate them. When I got up there was one lie, another lie, another lie. I thought, Well, if there's only this girl making the accusations against these men, and it's just her and there's no one else that can corroborate what she's saying, then these men cannot be trialed by public opinion, because I've been tried by public opinion too many times. Yeah. So when I went to the Muslim man's house, I met the family. I was waiting. They own ice cream vans, and I was waiting. And then the woman just said, What the fuck are you doing here? That was his wife. I just said, I just want to ask a few questions. And then she rings him up. He comes back. He was in leads, or saying, and then I go into his house. And John, when I went into his house, he's got 16 year old son who's been forced out of college. I've got children the same age, and as I'm walking in his house, someone shouts racist at me, and then someone else shouts pedophile at him. And I look at him, we sit upstairs, and I say, Well, I think I won that one there, but I also took a real view looking at him and his wife sat there and his two sons. So what the fuck must this be like for them if she's lying? If she's lying, there's kids who've had to leave college. Their dad's name is destroyed as a rapist, a child rapist, the worst thing you can ever get. And at the minute, as I'm looking at it, there's no evidence other than a liar, because this girl's clearly lied, and she's lied about multiple rapes in the past had people falsely imprisoned on rape charges. These are not Muslims. She's accused before now, and no one knows the story behind this. As I'm as I'm investigating in Barrow, there's 2000 people start covered out on the streets. The town's really blow up. The houses are getting smashed up. Businesses are getting smashed up, and this girl, who I then find out when I'm start investigating, has lied about rape when she was at school, has and I find the family, I knock on the door, and the mum's like, please tell me, don't I said, I just need to know what's going on. She goes, please don't involve my son. She said, he's only just getting over what she'd done to him. I said, I just need to know did. She did. She falsely accused him. What was the details? She goes, she did. She's made up. So I thought, right? She lied about him. Then I find another person. She's lied about him, and just because this fits the MO of Muslim men raping kids, nothing she says can be taken. So I don't know if she has been abused, yeah, but I know that these men can't face trial the way they're facing trial, which is, then I approach the Muslims. And you know what, all the Muslims, which they all open their doors to me, the whole every Muslim business, come and speak to us. When I went and meet them, I walked into the first Muslim mathali was called the takeaway. Lovely guy. I walked in as an English lad sat there. He goes, Tommy, I follow everything you do. I've known this man for 25 years. He ain't no child groomer. Said, All right, so I'm just here to ask you questions, because there were questions that hadn't been answered, which were making it look pretty negative for some of these businesses. And then I'll just ask the questions the local journalists should have been asking. They weren't. So then I'd done that story, and the police arrested me, prevented me, the police put a condition. I weren't allowed to talk about grooming. Weren't allowed. So the only person in that position at the time, because no one believed the media or the police, I could have cleared his name, and the most. Him, like, please tell everyone. Please tell everyone that she's lying. Has she been prosecuted? Yeah, she got like, eight years. She just got out of jail. I think now

  Peter McCormack

  it must. It's being called a racist all the time. One of the most frustrating things you have to deal with.

  Tommy Robinson

  Do you know it doesn't, doesn't bear any weight. Don't, don't. For me, in Luton, you I'm from Luton, yeah. I know Luna. Most of my friends are not white. So for us, when I started in Defense League, everyone's calling me a racist. We just, we just thought, is that hilarious? Well, it didn't matter, because all the blacks in Luton are not a racist, because they all know me pretty well. Yeah. So the black community know me really well. The Muslim community knew me well. I was growing up. I was a character in the town. As a youngster, I guess I knew everyone, so I was well known in the town. So all these attacks of racism, and I've had so many circumstances where I've been I've been in Luton, and there's a university, and there's two students, and one, that's when I'm leading English one that when I told me, I put his hand up, I went to shake his mate's hand. He said, I'm not shaking your hand. I saw you. Why is that? He said, You're a racist. So I got my phone out, I rang NASA, who's a Pakistani. I said, What? NASA? Where's your family from back home, bro? He goes, Ah, and he says, Kashmir blocks. I go, alright, I'll ring up another lad who grew up with called him man. I said, him, man, where's your family from in Afghanistan? Where's your where's the local area? And I'm going through these questions ringing multiple Muslims. I said, you ring your Muslim mates? And he's went, I said, Jake, got any Muslim mates have you? I said, here you are judging me. You're exclusively white. Group of friends. No, I'm the racist. I said, You have no idea what you're talking about. So one of the issues I talk about, I've had this so many times, you know, hitching, yeah, kind of hitching. I had this incident in hitching. I mean, I'm out with my mate, two girls, my wife's I what I don't realize is a fella called Bob. Remember this case, Mark? A fella called Bob has gone and put anyone who wants to beat up Tony Robinson, he's in this pub. Yeah, I don't know he's done this. He's done a big state status on Facebook like I'm walking out of the pub at the end of night. Six lads waiting. But six students, yeah, or six geeks, really, little lads, but they've tried to have a go at me. I end up getting a blood clot here. So I did have a blood clot. I did get there are six of them, yeah, but I had a blood clot. I've gone away. The next day, I've gone home, I've gone to hospital. And then I found this Facebook post by this Bob Dyer, and it's been shared in the hitching community group. So all the businesses are in one group, yeah, and they've all put Tom Robinson, the racist, was causing trouble in our town last night. He's barred. He's barred, he's barred. I'm looking at all these businesses saying I'm barred. I'm thinking I went out my missus last time was attacked. I didn't do anything wrong. So I've gone to the businesses. Excuse me, why am I barred? Yeah, I was out here minding my own business, and I've gone and found Bob, this fellow who wrote this statement, and I've knocked on his door. He lives in lecture. I've got my own knocked on the door. His sister answers, what fuck are you doing here? I said, I'm here to speak to Bob. Tell him to come outside. She slams the door shut. So I'm shouting through letterbox, saying, Bob, come outside. You thought it was a great idea last night. Come outside your housemate. And then I put my number through there. He won't come out. And then by the time I get home, I see he deleted his Facebook. He deleted all this social media is going ping. Just deleted it like he's shit, yeah. So I put out a statement of mine with a picture of him saying, Bob, problems not going away. I'm going to come back around your house. Yeah, you got me attacked. We need to talk. He messages, sorry, Tommy, it was a drunk, a drunk tongue in cheek. Moment, I apologize. I said, not good enough, Bob, that's not tongue in cheek. Now. I said, you need to meet me so and he I said, Tomorrow, cafe rouge, which is in hitching town, said I thought, if he's still there, cafe Rouge tomorrow, 12 o'clock. So I walk into Cafe rouge, Bob sat there with his two little juice heads. I walked in, I said, Bob outside, and the white lad goes, you can talk in here. I said, shut the fuck up, man. So if I wanted to get him, I'd already got him. I said, Bob, come outside, or the problem's not going to end here. Just come outside. So he comes walking outside, my mates waiting for camera, and my mate comes over the camera and says, why should he be beaten up? He's just like, and this is the problem with any of the he's like, oh, what I said? Explain to the camera why I should be violently attacked. Because I was the other night. You encouraged it. I was with my wife. I got jumped by six people, and he said, I'm sorry. You shouldn't I said, you realize it's not computer game now, Bob, because you may you think, you think it's a real life? I've got a real life. Yeah? So he goes on, and I said, right, Bob, what I'm going to do now, because I talked to him for about an hour, and he was all right. He was sound. He apologizes. I said, John, I'm gonna delete every image of you. I'm gonna delete I'm not gonna ship this video. I've made here. I was only making in case you was an idiot. Yeah, I'm not gonna share this video. I'm gonna delete all so I'll go ahead. I delete everything. Shake his hand. He was pro open borders. We didn't agree on anything, but he was a writer. I leave, I then find the kid that jumped me. So I go to his house, knock on his mum's door. He's away at university, so knock on his mum's door. Your son here. She rings him up, and he's like, Mom, ring the police. Ring the police. I'm saying, Don't ring the police. Yeah, I'm saying, Do not ring the police. Do not it's not it's not gonna be good for him. Don't ring the police. She rings the police. I leave. Police are coming. I leave. Then the police contact me. They say, Tommy, now looking at what's happened. Can you come down and see us? I'll go to Hitchin police station. They goes with what's happened. We would have thought you're going to house to intimidate the family, but we spoke to. Bob, yeah. I said, Bob. They said, Yeah. You went to his house. So when did you speak to him? He goes, Well, he spoke. He spoke really highly of you. He said you were right, and you didn't intimidate him all. I said, Hold on a minute. So you went to Bob's. They said, Yeah. I said, Because you saw me do the post. So you know that Bob incited violence against me, but you didn't go there to do anything against that. You went to see if I caused the problem. And now on this house, so obviously the CCTV shows this kid, this woman's son, just violently attacking me. He gets nicked. I did tell her not to. But from that, I went through that kid's social media. He went to a beautiful little school and hitch him. The nearest mosque to his home is in my town. He doesn't have one single non white friend. So this is six white children coming outside a club to attack me, who believe I'm a racist, who have absolutely no experience of growing up in a multicultural, diverse community. So that's the problem with most of

  Peter McCormack

  them, yeah, but you're enemy of the state, so it's always Tommy's fault. It's Tommy's fault. Look, I'm gonna get it from this. Yep. I mean, I showed you, Terry's gonna, Terry's gonna lose his shit.

  Unknown Speaker

  Well, Terry, he's gonna lose his shit because everyone

  Tommy Robinson

  gives a shit, Terry, like you're on the wrong side of

  Peter McCormack

  history. Well, I'll be it started with race racist sympathizer, and then they'll call me racist. You start with racist sympathizer. That's where I'll start. That's what you're gonna be, a far right extremist now, well, no, I'm getting that ready. I am. I'm far right. Yeah, we had a

  Tommy Robinson

  what do you how do you find that? Say, coming from, where you've come from? Yeah, yeah, you're successful. You're a businessman. Yeah, done very well. You're trying to help. You've stepped into the how this is happening to you. Now you're trying to help your local team. So you're trying to do good? Yeah, now you're getting that called all these labels. How do you find that, as a family man with kids? Because do you worry about how that might affect? No, because

  Peter McCormack

  I don't worry too much yet, because we're I think I'm at the early stages of it, Tommy, that's the thing I we have. We have these civic meetings my coffee shop. Anyone can come and we explain what we're doing with the security. We say we're not moving on homeless people. Explain

  Tommy Robinson

  to people, because I know what I'm doing, but some of my supporters be watching this, who won't know what you've done?

  Peter McCormack

  So Bedford has so we bought the football club in the town, and then we wanted a club shop in the town. You're not going to sell enough merch. To make it worse, we have enough coffee shop. And I used to work in America making the podcast, and so I've come back. And I used to sit in the window of the coffee shop every day, and every morning you would see them come out like rats. It's gonna sound terrible, but you know, the LIBS are gonna lose their shit, because I've even said that, but they scuttle around and they're yelling at people. There's one guy dragging his legs around because he's got sepsis. They are begging, they're stealing. They're it's just

  Tommy Robinson

  this little place by taversock street like a little where

  Peter McCormack

  you drive past near the prison? Yeah, no, they're in the town center now. Oh, no, you talk about the green and

  Tommy Robinson

  what about as you go around by towards the train station, just before you get around that bit coming through Bedford. I don't know if it's like a home. I don't know why, what it is, but there's always a massive,

  Peter McCormack

  well, it's everywhere now, so and I just we all we've, like, any town, we've always had a few homeless and a few

  Tommy Robinson

  drunks. No, you've got more. No, I'm from Luton. When I drive through Bedford, I'm like, wow, yeah,

  Peter McCormack

  when we drive through and we, I mean, what did we see yesterday morning, about eight in the morning, or seven when you dropped me off, we saw a guy off his nut. And so my point on this is, like, I've had drugs problems, Tommy. I'm like, I've been open about it, but when you've got drug addicts running around the town, stealing from the shops, from the charity shops, where the old ladies run it, screaming in people's faces, fighting, puking, being resuscitated, one it's it's not good for the people who work in the town, because they're trying to run a business. You're trying to run a business, and people aren't coming in because they're scared. That's a problem. We had a lad killed at the bus station recently. Yeah, that wasn't that was new, yeah. And so I've been speaking to people saying, if you're not coming to the town, why? And they will say two things. They'll say, it's turned into a shithole. And people hate me saying that. They say, I'm talking the town down. I'm just being real. And then they say, I'm scared. I'm scared. And you would be scared if you see people off their face and it's like, open drug dealers. There's just loads going right? I was like, fuck this. So I wrote, I set up a website called projectbedford.com and I wrote a manifesto. I said the first thing we have to sort out, as a security went to see the PCC, John Tizard, weak. Weak. This man is piss weak. He wouldn't solve the problems. I spoke to the police. They're like, we haven't got the resource for this. We literally don't have the resource to deal with it. So I was like, fuck this. I'm going to do a private security initiative. So I pay every Saturday in August. I've extended for September now, I pay for eight security guards to be in the town center from eight in the morning to six in the evening, to test whether that moves the problems out of the town center, and if it's people like it's good for the business. It's been overwhelmingly successful. They're scarecrows. They've got body cams so they scare people out of the town center. Yeah, that's my coffee shop, and that's Jose coffee shop. Yeah? And we had the

  Tommy Robinson

  arcade in bed because I went to college in Bedford, did you? Yeah? I've done an aircraft engineering apprenticeship. My dad was an aircraft engineer. Was he? Yeah, I was based at the bed. To college, you know, just yeah, by the river, yeah. I spent a year there full time. So

  Peter McCormack

  that was our first Saturday. That's Belmont security. They do the security at my bar. We've got all the so the two guys on the right run it. We've got them. And there's three police officers come down. And so the police came to see me, and I think at first they were apprehensive, because I kind of embarrassed them. But I said, Look, my issue is not with you. My issue is with the authorities not giving you enough money, enough police officers, you were shitting it

  Tommy Robinson

  as well. I thought otherwise. About to get arrested, yeah, the police's response,

  Peter McCormack

  yeah, but I knew, I knew what I was doing wasn't breaking the law. And I know our statutory rights. I know our rights to protect life.

  Tommy Robinson

  Sad that you, a private citizen, has to try and make people feel safe in their town center, because I think the issue you're talking about here in Bedford, yeah, if you watch Manchester, Piketty the gardens, it's everywhere. It's every time. It's every city center. Now Tom's become no go zones because of drunks drug addicts who are lawyering and just running amok.

  Peter McCormack

  And I've had people write for me from everywhere, from like Rushton, South Shields, and the people are saying, we've got the same problems here. So I was like, I don't see this as just private security. I see it as a game of chess. Probably not. You do sometimes, like,

  Tommy Robinson

  if I can do this, they'll do that. Yes, the council will then step in and maybe do this. So what's

  Conor McCormack

  happened since gone? PCC is putting in place everything that we've done. He called it a political

  Tommy Robinson

  stunt, which is embarrassing, a good political stunt, if it was political

  Peter McCormack

  stunt, because it's worked. But we've got police now in the town, and people are saying, This is great, you know. And I get, probably, like you, loads of DMS. People say I'm scared to talk public about this, but I've been held at knife point. I'm scared to close my business down because it's a dangerous time. And they said they've made them feel safe. And it's just it's overwhelmingly worked. But there is a group. There's an area in Bedford. Do you know Castle road? Where is that is? So if you it's, you know where the river is, yep, it's what one road back, it's where it's internally. I call it the, oh,

  Tommy Robinson

  where all the big houses are. Yeah, I call it the million pound houses, which, when I knew someone who lived there years ago from Milton Keynes, I just thought, I didn't know there was a million pound house in million pound house. Him in Bedford Town Center. There's 2 million pound houses there. Now, yeah, but this is the smallest because they got towards a private school.

  Peter McCormack

  Yes, yeah. And there's two private schools. There's that you're on, no, you're about so no, you're on about the Paris Avenue. I'm on about Paris Avenue. Where's the Paris Hotel? Yes. And I got Bedford School there. So at the bottom there's a green called St Peter's green. Every single day there'll be 20 to 30 guys, a couple of women, getting drunk and, you know, collapsing, fighting, having sex in public. And there's people trying to take their kids to school every Saturday, we clear it, we get we empty it. And there's now families there. I think this is a good thing, right? But this isn't, well, there's this area called Castle road. It's not everyone in Bedford, but I call it the Socialist Republic of Castle road, because there's a bunch of lefties there who hate it, and they hate it for a variety of reasons. They hate private security. They're like, but policing should be done by the police. I'm like, No, I agree. I don't want to spend this money. It's costing me fucking 10 grand a month. It's always costing you, yeah, 10 or two grand a day to do it. And they hate it for that. And then they also say things like, Well, where are these people meant to go to? I don't care. Just don't want in the town center. That's because I think of the town as a body, right? The Town Center is the heart. If the heart goes, the town's dead.

  Unknown Speaker

  Town spending money, yeah,

  Peter McCormack

  and if you're Tommy, if you're running a business, you deserve to be able to make money. You don't deserve to have crackers coming into your shop and Nick and stuff.

  Tommy Robinson

  And everyone now goes Kemps interchange retail park. That's right, Kempston. Everyone's going the retail park instead.

  Peter McCormack

  But we're look, we're turning around. But they hate it. They hate they just hate it. They just hate it because it's private security. They hate it because it's not run by the government. They hate it because they think I'm far I think the main thing is they think you're far away. They think I'm far back. End up being far right? They think, well, so they So originally it was like, well, you this is just a campaign to be met. I did look into Be a man. I don't want to do the job, because you can't do it. Well, then they're like, well, you're going to be an MP, you're going to be a reform. MP, I was like, I'm not. But by the way, the way, reform are a legitimate party. You might like them, dislike them, I don't care, but they're, they're a legitimate party, but I don't want to do that. It's genuinely philanthropy. I'm just trying to help the town, and I think they can't understand that somebody wants to spend money, and then they're like, Oh, you're just a rich guy, you know, trying to take over the town and that. And so now they scare on my social media. How can

  Tommy Robinson

  you have How can anyone have negatives coming from this? I'll just look at the town center when you because anyone who lives in Bedford sees the problem? Yeah, it's so obvious, right? It's massive. For people who don't know Bedford, it's massive. You just drive around by that train station area, it's just insane. Yeah, it's funny. The amount of drug abuse as you go from the town center. What's that Mexican in Bedford Town Center? Used to have little used to have the van. I don't, that's the best man. I always drive over there for that. What's it? I don't, I don't know. It's next to the bus station now, where the bus station is, His back's on there, Subway. Yeah, it's there. Is it still there? It's got to be there. I don't know. It was the best. It had like a van, and you used to have queue for ages to get it from the van, which was in the town center.

  Peter McCormack

  So Andreas. Andreas is the kebab. Is the famous one that does the good pizza. No, I don't know, no, but anyway, look so, but what they're doing in that they're scouring my social media. So they found a photo of me with Nigel Farage. They put that up. They found my application to go see you in prison. Put this one up. Yeah, they found my application to go and see you in prison. This guy is like, Well, why did you want to go and see Tommy? Well, I was like, Well, I'm

  Tommy Robinson

  grooming, if I remember, right, sorry, it's about grooming. You must have no, no. You reached out someone in Luton, my mother in law. No, I spoke to your ex wife. I was Yeah, through her mum also,

  Peter McCormack

  yeah. Oh no, through, yes, through Emma's. So Emma, who works for me, knows your Mum. Mum, yeah, your mother in law. She could ex mother in law, she connected. I spoke to your ex wife, I wanted to go. That was a point where I'd realized, like, I actually need to talk to Tommy, not believe everyone what everyone said. I wanted to go and see you. Firstly, find out what's happening in prison, if being if you've been treated correctly, which we probably not. And then just know for myself, it wasn't for an interview, it was just to come and see you. Obviously, I got rejected. Yeah, here's my letter.

  Tommy Robinson

  This is the reason they given this. Let's see. It's, well, I love this based on security or request to book a visit, Mr. Lem, based on security information indicating your visit may be used for journalistic purposes. Okay, that is my

  Peter McCormack

  purpose. Yeah. It's like, why would you ban a journalist from going to season but we should have free and open. They banned

  Tommy Robinson

  everyone until Nicola marfleet left the prison, which was number one governor, right? She left the prison, so she made so many lies about my case, yeah, in court, in her statement, I've got a statement which is just littered with lies. I can prove that lies she leaves gets a doubles her way, her wage gets a job for the IPCC. The new governor takes over and does everything she done. So new governor said, sat me down. Anyone can visit you, okay, this is not, yeah, this has not been on my watch. You want your visitors? They can come in. You'll have this. You'll have that. Sat me down, basically give me about my rights. I said, Okay, so what was it all about? It's obviously about. Nicola marfleet, well, so

  Peter McCormack

  banning me for journalistic reasons, I think is fucking terrible, because that's the good reason to go. A journalist should have access to prisoners be you should be find out how they're being treated. Find out the details of what you're being prosecuted for, what you're being charged for. Like, I think as a journalist, is good reason to go. But that guy's Terry, and he's going to be watching this, by the way. Hi, Terry. He he thinks, just for the fact I want to see you, I'm a far right racist. I'm definitely a conservative on a number of issues. I'm also quite liberal on some issues, but it's that cap you're far right, you're far right,

  Tommy Robinson

  that doesn't carry any weight. No one cares. No one cares. No Okay, luckily, that was 510, years ago, even two years ago, the way things have progressed now, it doesn't carry any weight. I don't worry anymore about any accusations racism extremism, because I don't have to even make a comment because the public jumped your defense on it. So all racists are extremists, all far right, Joe, what they're calling middle aged, middle aged mums, far right, because they're worried about their daughters. Everyone's now called far right. Did you ever read the article that Constantine wrote?

  Peter McCormack

  It's like, so I'm far right now, yeah. Oh, because he's now far right. Yeah. He said, he said, If I these are the things I believe in. So what? Okay, I'm far right. I accept it. I am far right. But I think all

  Tommy Robinson

  these I watched his, I watched it's quite interesting to watch his progression, yeah, because I've watched lots of people's change. I say change like and when I sat down with them, I think, Well, I haven't changed. I'm still saying the same as what I said. The public have shifted and changed his he's obviously come after October 7, because after October 7 of what happened in Israel. I think a lot of Jews in the UK, who will always jump into the defense of Islam and the Islamic community, realize that the same groups that they were jumping the defense of are now marching calling for the obliteration and annihilation of Israel, and they're the groups that they're aligned with. Unfortunately, for many years, it's like we tried to tell you, tried to warn you, he's smart constantly. Is very smart. Yeah, he's very smart. It's a great podcast, yeah? My we've done great numbers on it, yeah? And again, the comments on that for me, it's very even my Oxford Union. I go back to Oxford Union debate. The comments under that are all people saying, I feel outraged. I was told this man was this. I was told he was a Nazi. I was told

  Peter McCormack

  again, were you nervous for that Oxford Union one? Oh, shit myself. It's a tough one,

  Tommy Robinson

  John, what the Oxford Union was the first time I'd led the English defense league since 2009 This was 2014 this was my first chance since leading. Because I didn't used to do long form discussions or anything. I was just doing little two minute sound bites on the media where they're attacking me. Yeah, this was my first chance to say, well, here's who I am, and here's what Luna is like, and here's what it's like where I grew up. Yeah, so my opportunity to tell my story for the first time I'd had since former media and I walked into Oxford University hated by the crowd. I was getting called a fascist and extremist, and no one was no one would greet me. You meant to have a free course meal at those events. I didn't get by. Internet, no one shook my hand. I walked in, I stood up, gave my presentation, and at the end of it, all those people were shaking my hand, so then taking photos, whereas, so the change in the room, it totally changed. But that was it totally changed because they were able to hear rather than be told who I was, yeah, and even that, there was a Pakistani girl who invited me, the girl who's, if you watch when I'm giving my presentation, she's behind me. She comes from a very she told me there's a massive liberal movement in Pakistan, I didn't know about within the youth. Yeah, she said that when she come to the UK, she went to Manchester, the Muslim community, she said she had to run out. Said, because all she got was comments about not wearing a hijab by the Muslims. I said, Well, don't come to Luton enough, because, literally, the five year old are in hijabs, so but she said, and I never knew yours. I never knew any of this. Tommy, she was like, I can't believe what I've just listened to, because this is like, she shares the same concerns. Being a liberal from Pakistan, she says the same concerns I'm commenting on. What's happening with Islam in the UK?

  Peter McCormack

  Well, everything, it feels like everything's coming towards what you've been saying, like that Overton Window shift they're talking about is coming towards what you've been saying. The thing I wanted to know is, what do you know? What? What's the end goal for you here, when you think about all of this, is there an end goal? You go, you get reach, and you go with one. We've we've achieved what I wanted to achieve. Do you Do you know the end goal? I'd say,

  Tommy Robinson

  I'd say to look where we are now compared to where we've come from for 15 years. For 15 years we've been attacked for 15 years. We've been demonized 15 years. We've been slaughtered. We're now at a critical point where the masses are realizing, hold on, right? And we've been crying out for that. So I used to say, when we used to go on the streets with the English Defense League, this is a cry for help. You should be you should be listening. Yeah. And as I used to watch, as church leaders would align themselves, we'd go to a city the Muslim leaders and the church leaders would align themselves in protest against us. Now this is inundated with priests who are requesting, can they speak at our next event? Yeah, something huge has happened. There's been something huge has happened. So we've got to a position where the public are aware of the scale of the problem. The public are awake to the problem, the problems that used to be aligned to just cities like Luton and towns like Luton, where no one cared, because Luton is a shit hole, and it's Luton's problem is now in Colchester. It's in Chelmsford, is it? It's in every little town, because they've housed 200 migrants in most of hotels across the country. So people who didn't see the problem I had this incident, went to Norway recently an event, and there was a woman from north Wales there, and she's a very well to do. Very well spoken lady. She hated me for years. They just put a hotel full of migrants at the end of her road, and her daughter can't walk the street. She now sees it, so she's like, she now doesn't feel safe. Her daughter doesn't feel safe. Imbies, yeah, in my backyard. In my backyard, okay, yeah, the word for him. Do you know NIMBY? So the NIMBYs are not in my backyard. So, yeah, don't care. It's not as in my backyard like in Bedford. We'll have it. They they don't want the they want us to leave the problem around in the town. They want to leave the crackheads and the drunks alone, and they want them looked after, just not where they live, the imbibs, are they in my backyard? So they've experienced it. They go, no, actually, I'm not a fan of this. Actually, my daughter now can't walk school. My daughter's scared. I can't let my daughter out the way I did let her out. Where you should be free to let your daughter out. It should be but now they're realizing, well, this is how we've grown up our whole life in Lewin. So the what you're feeling for this little two minutes and this month is how we feel about our kids every day of the week. So I think so many people now it's impossible not to see it. I also think a massive weight, a massive part of this is given to Elon Musk. If you look at what's happened with me in the last 24 months since I was giving back my ex platform, I remember I was censored from every single social media platform there is in the planet. Yeah, I was wasn't just censored, but if you mentioned my name, you were blocked. There was a massive effort to demonize me, slander me and censor me. And why? Because the issues we were raising, if they would have just listened 15 years ago, they could have prevented so many more rapes. They could have dealt with this problem 15 years ago. We're now got this big inquiry. Can we have a public inquiry this discussion? Why didn't we have that 15 years ago? Why? What could have been prevented in the last 15 years, if you would have took it seriously when we first started raising our voice about who's talking about it on Paxman, talking about on Paxman, 2010 or 11, but we were giving speeches. What I've done is I've done a I gave a presentation in Russia. Yeah, I had to go to Russia to give a presentation because I was de platformed and censored everywhere. And I went to St Petersburg, and it was actually an anti put in event with 1000 people, and I gave a presentation called the raper brim, yeah. And what I done is I dug up old footage of the English Defense League. So I had us in Telford in 2009 Muslim rapists off our streets. Muslim rapists off our streets, all the banners, all the placards, and then I show four years later, all the other. Happened in Telford. I showed Rotherham, each city where there's been, each city that has now had the grooming scandal. English Defense League were there at that time protesting these issues. Now, at that time, we were just called a racist extremist, fascist, violent thugs. Yeah, there was a problem. I'm not going to sit here and coat over the image of the English Defense League, because the English Defense League was full of young men who weren't going to back down, young men, if you reverse the roles here, and let's imagine that in every Muslim community across the country, their daughters have been targeted and they've been raped and butchered and pillared and murdered and massacred and all these terrible things by groups of non Muslims. Then if the Muslim community sprung into action to protest it, and a journalist come out of the Muslim community who fought for 15 years to highlight it again, was imprisoned, was attacked, was demonized, then anything that happened from that community would be justified. Now, our community were angry. We were angry up and down the country at what was being allowed to happen. And young men, unfortunately, when they joined on the streets, we faced opposition from Muslim gangs at the same time. So when we were trying to have a voice against it, we were getting beaten down, attacked and violently attacked by groups of Muslims. And I don't blame those groups of Muslims, because they were told many things about us as well. So and I got to the point 2014 where I led the English fence for four years, and felt people wanted it to come back to Luton. We'd done a homecoming in Luton with 10,000 people, and people were talking about another protest in Luton. And at that time, I thought, I don't think it benefits us to march through Luton again. We've highlighted lots of issues here. If I don't want us to march through my own hometown again, because it's going to be too provocative. I felt at the way we were marching, I sort of felt I'm a bit of a hypocrite going into other towns of cities. And also, at this time, we'd got to a point where no one had been killed. Six Muslims were in jail. They got caught with guns and bombs on the way to kill us Jews, Brie, event, Jesus. Yeah. They got 30 years. Yeah, they got 30 years. They had suicide notes, like, I had to be killed for blasphemy was in the notes the queen. But they got caught. This is they. They drove up there. They got there two hours late. So there's a picture of him walking through where we were two hours before. But they got there two hours late. They went then went to the Tablighi Mosque, which is where the 77 bombers all went up in Dewsbury. It's the biggest mosque in Europe. They went there. And then on the way home, they get pulled over with no car insurance, and there's a police pull them over with no car insurance. Police don't search the car. They just seized the car, put the car into the compound. They opened the compound up. Two days later, find guns, bombs, IEDs, everything, yeah, and the police rang me at the time saying, right, we've there's been a big incident. What they found is that, prior to that, they were trying to track my movements via my mobile phone. So they were trying to track where I was via my mobile phone with people that I believe they had within the phone networks. I don't know, but they had this big investigation 30 years and I went to the court case. It was at the Old Bailey. There was 16 or 1716, or 17 of their big bearded Mullers friends in court. And there was me and my cousin on the back row. And I remember thinking as they were getting sentenced, it was like 30 years, 28 years, 28 years, thinking, What can I say? It's not contempt of court. So I stood up. I said, God Save the Queen. The whole court erupted. The whole place has just erupted, which I was laughing about, because I'm looking at him, going, you lot. And then six months later, I get sentenced into Woodhill prison, yeah, and I'm in Woodhill prison, and I'm going to my legal and I just look across it says, boom, myself, all of them. Sake, probably I'm in jail with them. Did you talk to him? No, I'm dead. No, so no, I went from that. So I went from that. And then when I was in prison, I'm in my cell when my door opens, and it's a former Paratrooper, British Paratrooper, and he says, when they come to get you, do not leave this cell. Your life depends on it, son, do not leave this cell. I'm not what he said, Don't leave the cell. So then about two hours later, he knocks for two more officers. He says, You, you're going on to a wing. Tommy, yeah, so I'm not going anywhere. He says, right, if you don't come, if you, if you're a fusion, we're going to put you on basic. You're going to face some disciplinary so I said, okay, so they take your TV out and then you face disciplinary to go before the governor. He comes back, hey, and says, they're giving you this one. They're on a wing. They're handing you and back it back at this point. This is 2014 there's no, there's no CCTV on the wings. I'd be dead. I'd have been killed. Yeah, I'd have been killed. And then the day after that, so that the day after that, they put me before the governor, and then go for another legal meeting, have my legal meeting come back, and there's a waiting room like this, and they open the door to put me in the waiting room, and I get as soon as I walk in, I see bids, but I saw their faces. They were as shocked as me. They're all looking at each other, the fuck Tommy Robinson, come in the room, and then that the officers have locked the door. So they put me in the room, locked the door. I didn't even sit down. I just stood my back to the wall. Knew what was coming, and just bang. I lost my teeth. I got bad. I got battered, absolutely battered, and then I got shipped out that was Woody. They could have killed her that day. They could, if they'd have known I was coming, I'd be killed because I'd have been plunged. But they only had what might have been 60 seconds, two minutes. Which felt like 20 minutes of me getting beat up, then the officers come in break it up. By that point, I've done I had my teeth smashed in. I was then shipped down to Winchester, but that was wood Hill. That was, which is now where they just took me back to, yeah, so obviously, when they told me I was going back to wood Hill, I'm a prison fan. I'm not dead. Here we go again. I it's

  Peter McCormack

  Were you talking about the scale of the problem? I know you've identified. There's big problems with radical Islam and Sharia courts and various bits there, but it's the scale of the problem bigger than that

  Tommy Robinson

  is the sale of the problem is astronomical for the public to understand that Islam, but,

  Peter McCormack

  but is it bigger than just Islam? Is it? Is it the, is it the governance of our country?

  Tommy Robinson

  Well, there wouldn't be a problem with Islam if it was down to the failed governance of the country, because they deal with these issues. Basically, we've had a government which have encouraged total non integration. Yeah, all cultures are equal. Basically encourage these people to come in mass numbers, form their own ghettos, do not have to integrate, do not have to assimilate. And that's what we've seen spring up across the country. But the governance, which is where I used to always talk about Islam a lot. Not so much anymore. Yeah, I think when I watch what happened with covid, I sat there thinking, Well, what is the biggest threat to this country? Because I always had the biggest threat down as Islam, and the dangers coming from Islam, of what's going to happen in the UK. And then I looked at the way they treated us and the attack on freedom, and then realized, actually their element of need for control. They'll attack our freedom. So take our freedoms and take the Muslims freedoms. Yeah, the biggest threat we currently face at the time of watching, because I watched it all play out with covid, was the attempt at taking our rights and freedoms, which is what we're witnessing now under Keir Starmer. It's the weaponization of the judiciary. I believe a lot of the problems, and they do it is due to appeasement of Islam, yeah, and appeasement of the Islamic community, because they're shit, terrified of them. Good votes, they become such a vote bank. Now, laborer don't know what to do, because they've lost them in they because Jeremy Corbyn is new group. There's going to be such an interest in next four years, politically, but the Islamic community organized himself in a military fashion to vote so that I'll give her example. I think it was it 2013 or 14, when this was Luton, and I was looking at the projected growth forecast for Luton by 2030 and I was doing the different wards, yeah, the Bangladesh and Pakistani community were to increase by 70 to 77% in those in that scale, yeah, the white and black community by 1.3 to 1.4% change. So looking, thinking, Okay, so we've got all these problems now, right? Basically doubled, yeah, double the problems. Because this is and labor know this. So labor are looking, they know the demographic change coming in towns and cities. So they're looking, thinking, right, where's the future lie in Lund. It's the Islamic community, right? So back then, they used to have the Council of mosques. So back then, at the time, I think it might have been 30 mosque, yeah, it's now 45 or whatever, in lumen, but at the time, so labor just do a deal with the local council mosques. You give us your 50,000 votes, we'll give you this, this, that's how it's working. It's basically just dividing up and we'll give you that you give us your votes and that's not how it should work. But what's happening there? And I remember Hazel Simmons was leader of Luton Council, and they gave this land to the sheer community for a pound. Now this was land like that mattered to us because it was promised as affordable housing. It was the old high town drill Hall site. You can look this case up, yeah, they give the land for a pound, and they promised it for affordable housing. So we kicked up a massive sting. The council took the land back. It got so embarrassing for the council, it's like, well, how have you, but that sort of deal there is for their vote, we'll give you this land for your Mega mosque. It was going to be the biggest sheer mosque there's been in Europe. Yeah, that's what they wanted to build there. They had to take we'll give you this land. You give us the vote. And these sorts of deals are going on. And Hazel Simmons was at a meeting in high town, and we went down to the meeting. Remember going up to her saying about what you've done. I said, we can expose everything you've done. She just sat down and said, there's not enough here. She just sat back. There's not enough here. I thought that is the attitude they have. They don't give a shit, they know that there's not enough of us, as in, working class non Muslims in Luton to affect it. Yeah, the future is with and Gavin super, at the time was the local MP there's been massive problems about the voting and the corruption within the Labor Party. Now in Luton, it's not saluting, it's Blackburn. It's every city or every town that has. From Blackburn. Is he from Blackburn? Well, a actually, okay, we see Blackburn. There was a the government set up a study, right? So this bloke comes to us. And he comes to me through Dave, a fellow called Dave, who was an anti racist campaigner, who I really liked. I met him through Luton Bar Council in those early years English Defense League, Luton Bar Council invited us down to meetings to find out what the problems were. They sat us down, tell us, tell us what you're angry about. So okay, I'll tell you. And I went through so many issues with, for example, you know, finally Hill and Lewin Farley Hill, I took them up to the park. I said that park was built in 1960 look at the piece of shit Park, right? That's for the community of finally Hill. Let's drive down into dalla Road, which is the Muslim community. They've got 330,000 pound state of the art Park. I said you've neglected us so bad. Yeah, you have not funded us. You have unfairly funded the Islamic community. You've ignored us, forgotten us, yeah, and don't give a fuck about us. Basically, now, finally, he'll get a park now because he's now Muslim, it's changed that much, that quickly, but the white working class, and if you look at academic achievements now that if you've looked at the biggest failures in academia are white working class kids, the reason buying they've been totally just left behind. Well,

  Peter McCormack

  this is one of the things I think about. So if you part the Islamic problem that you've identified, imagine it wasn't there. It wasn't an issue. I still think there'll be something we'd be fighting for, because I think we have a massive problem with government, massive Yeah, no. And that sounds like an evolution of your own thinking, yeah,

  Tommy Robinson

  yeah. It's coming to believe in Islam, well, seeing Islam as the biggest threat. So then looking at the government, look at Keir Starmer, look at what they're doing. Look at what he's done. Do you know what when I say this, people ain't gonna like it or hearing it had to happen. We needed Keir Starmer. We needed to see the weaponization of the judiciary. We needed to see the oppression of the working class. We needed to see the attack on British people who dared to voice their concerns. We needed to see Lucy Connolly imprisoned. I had to be imprisoned in the way I was for that film, for the public to see it. Unfor unfortunately, Peter Lynch was murdered in prison. He's dead. Yeah, all of these things, unfortunately, in this fact, people may not want to hear it. These are all things that had to happen in order to bring the public to the position they're now in.

  Peter McCormack

  And the most interesting thing about the public coming to where they've come to is that it's not a working class uprising. There is a working class uprising, but there's a middle class uprising, and there is a right there's an uprising of the I consider them like the outsider elites, you know, the rich people who aren't part

  Tommy Robinson

  of the our demographic of support has totally shifted. And so I realize that each time I've gone to prison by the mail, the mail I receive, I'm like, Wow. I thought I always just talk about working class, working class, working class workers. I'm reading it thinking, wow.

  Peter McCormack

  Well, the middle class has got no fucking money left. You've gone from a stage where my dad was an aircraft engineer, I mentioned, and my mum wasn't really wonderful, Monarch airlines, Britannia. Oh, wait. So I'm pretty sure they shared engineering at one point. My dad was at Monarch for 35 years, Luton Airport. He used to drive every day from Bedford to go and work. My dad, so he's an aircraft engineer. My mom's a nurse. That doesn't sound like two massive salaries, right? He put me and my brother through private school. They bought a house, they bought a second house, bought a third house. We can't do that anymore. He had a holiday every year. You can't do that anymore. Could you imagine an aircraft engineer, Nurse owning a four bedroom, detached house, putting two kids through private school, and have a holiday every year? I know people now have got two salaries, like good middle class salaries, they can't afford a holiday, they can't afford to move house, and it's, it's, we've, we've, we've essentially impoverished everyone from the standard they should expect from their what they're doing. And that's why the middle class now

  Tommy Robinson

  further and further and further, yeah, and further, squeezing that pot further and further and further.

  Peter McCormack

  And so it's not just a problem of Islam it's a problem of petty crime. It's a problem of affordability, of groceries. And I just think everyone is looking at our country, going, what the fuck has happened?

  Tommy Robinson

  If you take you're right, because if you take Islam out of Luton, yeah, Luton still take Islam out. Yeah, there is a culture in Luton, a level of violence, a level of criminality, which I don't know is matched anywhere else in the UK. I remember looking at the police budgets, and they said Luton would have a a serious problem of any borough in London, but with Luton, police don't have the same funding as those boroughs in

  Peter McCormack

  Luton. Well, if you go back to the marsh farm riots, that wasn't a problem of Islam. No, no. That was, uh, the police attacks allowed, yeah, just, but there was, there was a bubbling underneath undercurrent of people being pissed off. Yeah, and so you go to Bedford, when I talk about Bedford, there are people in America who watch my show, or people around the country and they say, Well, yes, because you've imported all these Muslims. Our problem in Bedford isn't Muslims. Our problem is white drug addicts, white alcoholics. That's the biggest. Problem.

  Tommy Robinson

  But then a lot of that, well, I don't know Bedford, because the heroin in Luton, like there's been, there was riots in the state in Luton, finally Hill, yeah, it's going back 20 years, riots where the Muslims had started bringing in the heroin onto the estate to hook everyone, and they, in fact, I think I spoke about in Oxford Union address, where my first ever demonstration, 2004 in Luton, where I made leaflets. It basically said, How come the Muslim community a pumping heroin? We know what shops they're doing. It from heroin. Heroin in looting is solely a Muslim drug. Pretty much. Yeah. Say, like lots of lads I grew up, have turned to coin. They won't be selling heroin, not in our states. Everyone would turn on them. We'd turn them myself. The lads would turn them themselves. Heroin specifically, and I said it in 2004 in this leaf here, that heroin is being used as a weapon against our community. Yeah, they're using it to ruin our states. They're using it to entrap the men on drugs, but they're also using it to entrap the young girls in a in a pedophilic prostitution, which is now known as grooming. But in 2004 that's what I called it now in 2007 you can Google this if you want to get the news article up the Daily Mirror, run a news article called chemical Jihad that this is three years after I done my leaflet where they named the same gang I was naming in looting the gambinos, and they explained that the gambinos are using heroin as a chemical weapon to target against British population. Yeah, which is exactly it may sound far fetched, but they actually are using and using heroin to destroy our communities. Now, heroin solely, pretty much comes from where, Afghanistan, right? So then and it's destroyed. So if every problem you're seeing in Bedford of these drug addicts has come from Afghanistan, imported into our country by who? Yeah, the Muslim community, the Muslim mafia, and then prostitute and then pumped out throughout every community by Muslim gangs. I guarantee you, the Bedford heroin market is controlled by Queen's Park Muslim community. I guarantee you listen. I guarantee you, dig up, dig up, put in Bedford heroin convictions. Let's have a look at who the drug dealers are. They're all going to be Muslim. Yeah. I mean, might be something. I don't know. They're all going to be Muslim. I'll tell you, though, it's a Muslim drug. They control it across the whole UK, and it's used as a weapon against our communities. So that's not Percy. It's not quite as simple as that. Well,

  Peter McCormack

  no, because we also have the county lines, we have the crack, so it's crack and heroin, yeah, in Bedford, and it comes up. But so, going back to that thing, the point I was trying to make, though, like the end goal, you know, what is it you want to see? What? What is it you want to see with this country, in terms of what you want to see happen? But where will there come a point we can go. I can relax now. We've got to where? Because let me, let me lay up. Give you a layup. Is, I think of it is through the lens of just freedom. All of this is downstream from not having freedom. That's how I think about

  Tommy Robinson

  them. I'd say that when British people are put first by our government, as in, I don't really care about Afghanistan or Somalia or Eritrea or Pakistan, yeah. What I care about is we've just drove past here now, and we're pulled up, and I've looked a lot of Englishmen laying in tents on the floor pulled up literally just around the corner from where we come in. I think I want to put them first. Yeah, I want to put the military first. I want to put the military who are living on the streets first, British children and girls first. So who do I care about? I care about a British 13 year old child being able to walk down that street, not a hotel full of men, yeah, who are now sexually assaulting, harassing them. So when British people are put first, which is not an incredibly difficult policy, it's exactly what Donald Trump has done in United States of America. He's ended immigration overnight. He's ended it. Are we supposed to believe that the Royal Navy cannot stop these migrants coming in? The fact is, there's no will to stop them. There's no courage to stop them, and there's no want to stop them because labor don't want to stop them because they're vote. They're bringing them in. But it's not just labor, because Conservative Party did exactly the same for a false economy to build up this false bullshit economy that they want to pretend is a success by flooding the nation with more populations and more populations. But those populations, as we know, are not working. They will be relying on the state. But then the state wants people who are relying on it. They don't want successful middle class people. They don't want us aspiring to be successful, to be able to buy free properties. Yeah, the corporations are ones meant to be buying the properties. I think Blackrock had just said they're going to spend a billion pounds on housing. I don't know if you've seen this. I saw they had a meeting with care. Well, they do. They're doing, they're doing a billion pound of housing in the housing market in the UK. Now, what's Keir Starmer doing? They're going to get them out the hotels. So they're going to get them out the hotels and put them where, into the HMOs. So instead BlackRock, so Blackrock going to buy a property up across the whole of the UK, and then they're going to house all these migrants that are in hotels. And this is supposed to be some sort of solution. So solution at the minute is 200 of them in the hotel where there's gonna be five or six of them in the house next door. We've got HMOs all across Bedford. Yeah, that's all it is by the train station here, because I've done the work on a few, yeah, back in the day, I was doing plumbing, you know where the train station is. There's some big, massive houses there, straight opposite. They're all built into HMOs, yeah, so we were doing it back then

  Peter McCormack

  it's all the town center. Now they what the properties are above the shops, uh. A landlord will buy them, they'll convert them to HMO, and then they rent it back to the council emergency housing. And that's bringing all the people from the remand prison when they're put on the street. Because, by the way, with the Roman prison, they're meant to send them back to the town. They come from Northampton, Luton, Milton, Keynes. People come to the Roman prison. They just throw them on the streets of Bedford, and then they go to the housing. They get put in HMOs. So you're filling the town. It's

  Tommy Robinson

  just big business. It's big business. Oh, it's good money. It's good news. Good money for the corporations and they want these populations. They want everyone living in the bedsit. That's the future when you're living in a stupid little bedsit with no freedom, no garden, nothing, sharing a small room and telling you that means freedom.

  Peter McCormack

  I'll give you the math of this. We did the Freedom of Information Act request on it, 2022 23 emergency housing in Bedford, seven and a half million last year went up to 18 million. So in two years, seven half to 18 million. We looked at how many people their house, and it worked out an average of 20,000 pound a year per person. Now if you've got an average of 20,000 pound, what would you expect to be able to rent for that? For 20,000 pound a year, you get so nice, you get some nice three bed mid terrace, maybe again, the beds, some of them are some of them are getting houses, but some, but that's the average. And so I'm looking at going, Well, somebody's making of that, if that's the average? Because really, yeah, if you're getting a one bedroom in HMO, is what 800 quid a month, 700 quid a month, probably 600 so that's eight and a half grand a year. So if that's the average who's making on it, and someone's making on

  Tommy Robinson

  it, as I said, Serco are making it's all big business. I know that's why there's no again, you don't think that the Royal Navy could stop the boats. We don't think that you could round up and start mass deportations. You know, like I see the RE migration, I saw the AfD in Germany, who recently got 21% of the vote. Their policy prior to election was remigration. Now you look at the terrorist attacks that have happened in Germany, all of the attacks, the sexual the rape rates, even across the whole of Europe. Here there's a you can literally draw a graph. Mass migration just comes rapes. So it's like, what do I care about? I care about British women. I don't really give a shit about the migrants. Yeah, and I don't believe that it's our problem. It's not our problem. So, and if we want to help them, we'll help them in a country that's culturally similar to them. Why are Saudi not taking any in? Why are none of these Qataris taking any in? Why are Egypt not Why are none of these Islam like the whole Palestinian issue? I think, what? Egypt's got a wall twice as big as Trump. Any wall Trump wants to build stopping the Palestinians. No Islamic nation in the world will take in any Palestinians. Yet we've got all these labor politicians saying they need to be welcomed here. Well, I don't, I don't think, believe any of them need to be welcomed here. I don't believe any of the mass migration we've had, say, like, when you look at Germany, they had a million come from Syria. Okay, so the war is now over in it. David Lammy shaking the hand of the jihadist now in control. Now, if that's the case, people need to start going back, and that's and unless we address the illegal immigration that's in this country, then the demographic replacement of our, of us as people, is going to happen anyway. So when you have

  Peter McCormack

  these progressive types who say we should welcome everyone and that you're a racist if you don't let people in. Do you think? Do you think we should try and build a bridge and talk to these people? You can't talk to them. They might just become am I wasting my because I think, no, you can't talk to them. I think about the end goal, what? What I'd like to see for the UK, which is usually starts economic, economically successful, safe, beautiful. That's what I want. Is an economically successful, beautiful, safeguard. Beautiful, safe country. And I think, How can I, how can I build a bridge with the people who think differently from me? And I'm confident you think that's a waste of time. Now you have to

  Tommy Robinson

  understand that these people who are saying Refugees Welcome when you just tear back the skin a little bit, they're Marxists or communists. So what it is they see the easiest way to align, the red, green, the alliance that happened in Iran, where the left side with the Islamists. Why are they siding together? Because the left, they hate religion. But here they are siding with Islamic radicals because they believe that the biggest weapon to bring down the state, which they wish to destroy the state and start again, don't they? They wish to bring it all down like, whether it be defund the police, get rid of the police. Cause so much criminality. The biggest weapon to do that together is the left and the Islamists, which join together so you can't sit and have a conversation with them, because the reason they're talking this way is to get their end goal anyway, and their end goal is either Marxism or communism. Waste of time, then can't waste time. They don't believe in freedom. They don't want freedom. They want the state. They want the state to control absolutely every aspect of your life. That's their mindset. That's well, that's their end goal. So whilst they pretend they care about refugees, the truth is they don't really care about them. Either they don't, and if they cared about them, how many they didn't

  Peter McCormack

  live with them? Well, they're NIMBYs, as I said, my backyard, so that's a waste of

  Tommy Robinson

  time. Well, I think that I've always said the left or the counter protesters to us, because lots of our supporters used to run towards them, and it would frustrate me a lot, yeah? Like now we're planning our event September 13. I don't care about the opposition. Yeah, I don't think people should try and talk to them. Should try and go near them. You know, they are busting from. Around the country. They're paid to be there. They're paid activists. Yeah, like there's free busses put on to bring people against us. On the last few events, the busses are free. They're organized by organized by the trade unions. It's literally the government. They are the boot boys of the government who are shipped in. We saw it in Epping recently, yeah, where they brought them in to attack families and women who are protesting now this might have worked up to 10 years ago, five years ago even, yeah, because it's what I've done with English fencing. They literally get you your supporters there. They'll let people throw things at you when your report, when your supporters react, the media are waiting as a weapon of the state to take the pictures. They won't show what's gone on here. Yeah, they'll literally just show loads of angry English, and they'll portray you as thugs, criminals and hooligans. And that media portrayal is then pumped around the entire country. And when I say pumped, it's like any negative news story about me. It's not just pumped on the date, say the Trinity mirror they own all the local newspapers, yeah. So the story will come out in the Nationals, and then it'll be bed for sheer news. Heart for sheer news. It will literally spread like their their narrative across the whole country, and they portray all they're given to people. Now, if the recent Epping protests, as the Antifa were bused in by the police, bought in by the police to do exactly this, if it wasn't for citizen journalism. Now, which is the best thing that could happen to freedom and to help people see the truth. Then they were videoed coming in. There were video being brought in from outside of the area. They're not locals. Who are they? They're the same people at every protest that's they've been busting to provoke a violent reaction continuously, all wearing masks. Can't see who their faces are, coming in to provoke reaction, but then because the videos now of that is what's going viral, because now there is an alternative, because they don't control the entire social network anymore. Elon Musk has bought X. X is now the biggest news platform and source of news in the world. Where did the British public get the news from X? Everyone goes to x. Now this is a big problem for the establishment. It's a problem for Keir Starmer, because up until 24 months ago, they could tell you what to think about everything. They could literally tell you what to think and control words that were not allowed to be said. You mentioned Tommy Robinson on Facebook. You were deleted. They had control of all of them. They've lost total control, and they've lost total trial, which is why we're now, I'd say bordering on a British revolution. I totally believe we are.

  Peter McCormack

  Well, the whole flag thing is fascinating. I mean, I'm watching it every day. We just drove in. I mean, I've seen flags everywhere, look everywhere, and it always makes me laugh because there'll be somebody on Twitter complaining about the flags, and they've got a Ukrainian flag in them, by the way, I'm actually supportive of Ukrainian people, but it's just an EU flag or a pride flag, yeah, but they hate the English flag. And it's like, well,

  Tommy Robinson

  anyway, they're in the all of these things now, which is the good thing they're losing. They're losing big time. Yeah, I walk the streets. I've had to now, I've had to change my thing after St Pancras recently, but I get to see public perception. We just saw the guy around there. Stop you, yeah? The Indian guy, yeah, have a chat with you. I was a Hindu guy. Yeah, Joe, he's fed up with he said, I've come here. I'm English. Tommy, yeah, I'm English, which upsets some ethnos as well. He's a Hindu guy. I'm English. Listen to my accent. I'm fed up of one section of this country, one community in this country, that are causing so many problems.

  Peter McCormack

  and you walk around the streets, lots of people stop you, talk to you, thank you. I've seen some videos you've put out where people come up to you. I think you're in Magaluf or something once or something. Anyway, people come up thanking you. What? Yeah, one agitator is everywhere. So on every news network,

  Tommy Robinson

  it just takes one, which is what happened recently in St Pancras, and that was probably that I'd say the most worried I've been in anything, probably, and I've had a lot of worrying situations, because it happened at train station in St Pancras. I was confronted, continuously confronted and harassed, yeah, and then obviously it gets to the point where he violent. He comes at me violently. I defend myself. Which is what's happened? I then watch as forensic tents are put up. I saw that, so I'm looking thinking, Oh, this bloke's dead, right? But what they what people don't realize is I've contacted the police straight away, yeah, which is the recordings I contact the police saying, Look, this has just happened, lads. I'm at the underground in London. I've been confronted. I've had to defend myself. If I stay here, there's gonna be more problems. Yeah, because your police officers ain't here yet, I'm, I'm gonna get confronted probably more. Yes, I'm, I'm out of here. Let me know how I can give a voluntary interview to you. So I've contacted the police. The media have portrayed to the whole country that I've done, a runner, that I've left, that I'm on the run, The Guardian have traveled to Tenerife, knocked on innocent people's doors, taking pictures of them, yeah, saying they're trying to hunt me down, like I'm on the run. I'm not on the run, right? I've then liaised with the police the whole time, as have my lawyers. I've done I've changed my flight because I was flying into Manchester originally, my original flight that was booked three weeks before this incident. My return flights to bring me into Manchester. So I sent them all return flights. The police said, Could you please fly into London for the interviews? I said, Okay, I changed my flight. I land at Luton Airport. I'm on the plane, and remember, I've arranged this. I'm the one who's contact. I'm contacted them, and I look out the window, it's like the army are there. There's blue lights everywhere, and the planes all there. So I might make my way up. I said, Excuse me, ladies, to the air hostesses said, there goes only they have to sit down. I said, No, no, this is definitely for me. And they're like, what I said, this lot's for me. And as they look out, there's just police everywhere. I mean, like, must be six wagons, yeah. So I come down, they open the door, and I go down, and then, all right, Tommy, come here. You're under arrest. And they said, surprised to see us. I said, I'm the one that I've contacted you guys, yeah, but this big thing, and then it went all over the media, all over the news, but when I sat down with the police, I was worried, yeah, because what I believed is I read a witness statement in one of the newspapers who've done an interview now, this fucking idiot doesn't realize I have a recording. Yeah, it's not been shared. Yeah, I have a recording which shows exactly what was said and by who. And you can evidently hear the man and how aggressive he is, yeah? And you can hear him Come at me, yeah, and scream. You want a piece of me at the top of his voice, yeah, it's at that point I'm in a position to defend myself. Now I have that recording. Hey, the police haven't had it. No one else has it. I have it. What does the witness statement say? He says, I said that. So as I'm as I'm reading this witness saying in the national newspaper this i balcony, things, yeah? So as I'm reading this witness statement, I think, well, I didn't say that, and I've got the evidence and say that. So then I sit down in my interview and I'm shitting myself, because I think they're going to have no CCTV, they're not going to shut so you're just gonna have witnesses accounts. So I'm thinking, well, witnesses are all going to damage me, yeah? Because I don't trust who the witnesses are, so I don't trust this. And then I'm worried, thinking, Well, I'm in trouble here. But I sit down, the two police officers are sat there. I go in. I meet my sit down my solicitor, and she says, police are really nice. It's pretty strange, Tommy, they're being really nice. So I said,

  Unknown Speaker

  All right, they've got footage.

  Tommy Robinson

  I sit down. They start playing the footage. So I'm watching the footage, and I'm standing there, and this man comes here. I'm standing minding my own business. He comes up here in my face. I'm like, mate, what you're doing? And you see him follow me. And I walk backwards, and you can see me clearly, saying, fuck off, mate. Yeah. Then I get away from him. He comes back after me, and now he comes off a train, yeah? He comes off his train at St Pancras. So he's leaving St Pancras when he sees me, and he makes a beeline and follows me to my train. Yeah? Now this is the bullshit, because when he gets to the top of stairs, he starts tending he's looking for a platform, yeah, but he's just what the witnesses don't know or don't see is what's happened for the two minutes before this. He's confronting me. He's threatening me continuously. He's aggressively confronting me. You can see it so clearly. So as I'm watching on the camera, and I'm waiting for the minute when I obviously defend myself, and I'm thinking, because it all happened so quick, but as I watch it, he just comes at me. So it's like, well, there's never a better case of self defense. I tried to get away from him so many times he follows me. You can clearly see how he's he's all over me. He's in my face. He's literally here. Yeah, I'm watching it, thinking I should defend myself. 10 minutes ago, when I'm watching it, and I look at the police officers like and I look at my solicitor, I think, the fuck am I even doing it as I'm watching this? Then I realized they haven't even. Got a statement of him, so he hasn't give a statement. Now I'm answering about this on the third of this month. Yeah, okay, but what I said when I come out is, we'll just release the footage, let the public don't that 10 second clip you put out of him asleep on the floor. Yeah? Now I was worried for him, very worried at the time, because from what I understand, is he's had a blood clot in his brain, yeah, which I'm not happy about, but I was forced into a position to defend myself.

  Unknown Speaker

  We don't like self defense in this country.

  Tommy Robinson

  It's like, as I'm watching it, I'm thinking, even when they're interviewing me, I'm looking at them, the two coppers, I'm looking at my solicitor, and the copper just gave me a smile, because he could see my reaction. Because once I saw the footage, I was like, Oh, Thank fuck for this.

  Peter McCormack

  Are you still at risk with this? Though?

  Tommy Robinson

  Well, look, well, Ricky, this dude who just got the not guilty for slip. Yeah. So he got not guilty because they put him on a jury trial in a certain catchment area of London, where the catchment of the jury are going to sympathize totally. They're a labor supporting catchment. They're going to sympathize with him totally, yeah. So I don't trust even there. I'll have a jury trial if they prosecute me, but the public just need to see the video. When you see the video, you'll see that I had no choice but to defend myself. Then, then I realized that I'm in a bit of a vulnerable position. I walk everywhere on my own if, well, what was

  Peter McCormack

  the first thing you said to me? Why are you walking around London someone, anyone

  Tommy Robinson

  today? Yeah, but I just said, I live my life quite I just live a normal life. So if I want to pop into London, I'll just pop into London. Tommy, you don't have a normal life. No, now I realize that, yeah, not now I realize that I've just sort of lived off. I think having security. It makes me feel muggy. I don't need security,

  Conor McCormack

  but it's Tommy. Did he just strike you? John,

  Tommy Robinson

  what's insane this I had a cut on my forehead that was done two hours before a podcast with Brian Rose. So as I walk and Brian Rose could state this year, as I'm walking into a podcast, I pulled the door open. It's a glass door. When it hits me in the head, I'm leaving knock myself out. I had a little cut. Now this happens, and then two hours later, after the interview, I go, I'm on the way home on my own. I have a burger at the train station, and then, uh, I'm walking through, and this happens. So people are putting the two and two together, and see people saying, well, he's obviously been here because he's got a cut on his forehead. That cut on the forehead, which people probably wouldn't believe you bag your head hung from the glass door on the way into the podcast.

  Peter McCormack

  But the thing is, you don't have a normal life. You just don't your life is far from normal. You're one of the top doesn't matter what people think of you, like you, dislike you. You're one of the probably top personalities in the country. You're doing something really important for a number of

  Tommy Robinson

  people. Well, I realized how when I sat there for that weekend, I thought there's a lot of people relying on September 13. There's a cultural movement being built. And you know what I said, what we said at the start? And it wasn't just me. There was a team of people who sat in a room, and all of them have got a profile. It was from Katie Hopkins to Lawrence Fox to Cole Benjamin. There was many people. So the idea was, we sat down, said, right? Everyone here reaches a different demographic, young tick tockers. We need to protect British culture. Okay? We need to agree on five principles. So we sat and spent the whole day in a room. Jordan Peterson flew in. We sat down in this room, and we said, Right, let's come to an agreement, because not everyone agrees on everything. You might not agree with me. I disagree with Katie Hopkins on a lot, yeah, yeah, that's it. But what we can agree on. This was the point in the meeting. What we can agree on, yeah, is let's protect British girls from sexual exploitation, let's defend free speech. Let's come to an agreement, which was our five basic principles. We're looking at, calling it the pledge. And this was the idea, was that to compete with the lies and smears of the mass media? Yeah. Well, if we bring all of these platforms together, of YouTubers, tick tockers, big accounts on x we had comedians, boxers, yeah, celebrities, if we can bring 20 of us together here, then we can click a button and we reach the masses more than the media can ever dream of.

  Peter McCormack

  But you can't do you can't do much when you're in prison. No, you've got to stop going to prison.

  Tommy Robinson

  I know, but it's not now. It's occupational hazards. How many times you bid too many? Yeah, but you got a six generally, is that's not, that's not a choice. Well, it was a choice on the last one, because I played the film. But you see, the only way to prevent that, the only way to prevent that, would be to shut my mouth, because, unfortunately, so long as I continue to talk, they're going to continue to try and find ways to bring me down.

  Peter McCormack

  Sure, but I think you can play I can think you can play it smart. Yeah, when you go to prison for 30 months and eight months of that solitary, no one hears from you, no any message, right? Yeah. And I think there's such an important role that you're doing, like I said, I've seen it now. It's gone from basically anyone I know say Tommy's a racist and reformer a racist party, to people saying, I'm going to vote reform. And Tommy was right when you gone for 13 months. That's a voice that's lost an effective voice, and also it's clearly not good for your health. I watched your interview with Ian tufts. I was joking up. It's clearly not you. For you personally, it's not used for your kids. Surely, there's a finer line you can walk. I

  Tommy Robinson

  think if you walk, I think that walking that fine line has got this country in the mess we're in fair. That's what I feel. But other people can do that job now, yeah, hopefully, how many people you think are gonna do it? Done it under a fake name? Because I was hoping someone's going to know what to do with this. Yeah, we're going to build a movement. And then that's why I was using a fake name. And I thought someone who knows what to do is going to step in. That never happened. They're stepping in now, though, yeah, it's encouraging, because so many Joe, what you're sitting here having these conversations? Yeah, we cry. I cried out. And I guess I had to follow swallow a bit of pill, a little bit, because I was feeling bitter. Well, you know, like, say, like, now I watch other conversations, whether it be you Constantine, I see these in people talking about, I was thinking you slammed us. I mean, I carried, we carry all that shit because people slammed us. But then really, what I've been crying out for is other platforms that are taken seriously in other issues to start having these discussions. And that's what's happening. So you're right, yeah, look, I

  Peter McCormack

  think someone going from slamming you to going, Oh, hold on. I'm sorry. I was wrong. It's a good thing. No, that's part of that's part of the look. I think a lot of us, covid was a wake up call. There's a big wake up call for me. I fell for a lot of this shit. I unfortunately got a jab, which I yeah, I do. I regret it. I wanted to go see my dad in Ireland. You kids didn't my daughter. He got one. He was going to dapper with his mates. They could get, couldn't get into Napa. But at the start, when they

  Tommy Robinson

  first away, mate, yeah, it was always away, right? Well, when

  Peter McCormack

  they first announced it, I was I was over. Interestingly, I was in Turkey. They were opening up the border to Greece to send the migrants out because Erdogan had enough of the amount of migrants had in Turkey. I was like, fuck this. I want to go and see this. So I broke into a refugee camp on the border of Greece just to go and see it. An interesting experience itself. And then I came back and they were closing down the airports. I got almost, I think I got covid on that trip, because I got really ill. And when they came back and they said they're going to lock down, I agreed with I said, we need to this is dangerous. And then you start to realize that hold on a second, some of this is not making sense. And I want to go see my dad in Ireland. Had to get the jab. So I did. Went see my dad, and then they wanted to jab my daughter. And I was like, Well, hold on, this is a line with a test, yeah, with what? What is it you're jabbing with, yeah? And then afterwards, I'm like, Oh, fuck. I've been, I mean, I've been mugged off a lot of times in my life by what the government said. I think that was, like, one of the final stories. I was like, Okay, I can't be mugged off anymore. I keep I've got a public profile. I keep making an idiot of myself agreeing with what they're saying. And then once you, once you accept that, you're like, you realize

  Tommy Robinson

  everything. It takes a big person to accept anyway, lots of people are still trying to hammer it down.

  Peter McCormack

  It's like, no, look, no, we're bugged off. Yeah, it was stupid, and they lied, and they lied about everything, and well, so that. So then thinking of the government of an institution. I was at a dinner last night with a bunch of people, and we're talking about this Labor Party is awful. Let's just be honest. It's the worst

  Tommy Robinson

  government I've ever which we needed. America needed Biden for four years. Yes, they needed to see the damage. We need to see, because labor have only ever took over a country that's had money. Yes, now they've took over a country don't have money. Let's see what they

  Peter McCormack

  do. Well, what would I keep saying this? I say usually when labor wins power, it's usually of a time where we've got money and they get to distribute it. We've got fuck all money. Now,

  Tommy Robinson

  cool. Let's see what they do and that now you're seeing what labor will do, but

  Peter McCormack

  in three years, three and a half years, we'll have another election. It's like, well, who is going to fix this? Because there's candidates. There's obviously Nigel Farage reform, and you and him haven't seen eye to eye, but they could win. I

  Tommy Robinson

  think they're already chosen to win. I think that when you see Fraser Nelson, when you see these people who are leftists, already basically propping Nigel up as the next prime minister. So I think the decision of I think you're skeptical of reform. I'm skeptical, totally skeptical. I think the establishment are fully aware that no one's voting labor and no one's voting conservative. So these two parties are fucked. Yeah. Now look where reform just took a million pounds from World Economic Forum, from a Muslim. They just took a million pound donation from a World Economic Forum lead Muslim within that pie, Zia Yusuf has been given the position within the reform pie. Who is he? Where the hell did he come from? He paid 200 grand and bought the chairman seat of Nigel Farage, yeah, that shows absolute weak cowardice. By Nigel, who are you selling the you're selling the chairman position of the party that the entire country is relying on to some random Muslim that people know nothing about. Now, what is, what is that? What has he done since he's become chairman of the party? Or what's re how have reforms voices changed? Shamina begnum Nigel Farage thinks we maybe should bring her back. What else does Nigel Farage think? Won't do mass deportations? That's just changed, though. See, I mean, it's flip fucking Farage, yeah. But what you changing for? Right? The policy should have been drilled down. Everyone knows what the country needs six months goes 12 months ago, reforms, policy, i. Last year was one in one out Well, half a million Brits left last year. So who's the half a million you're bringing in reform? So all of the things the public believe because Nigel Farage sits there with a with a point of beer, they believe he's one of them. He's a city banker who does not give a flying fuck about the working class. That's the truth of it. And people don't like hearing it. Yeah, Nigel is the same. Nigel is exactly the same, right? So why is that? What reform now filling their party with labor Lib Dems, Net Zero enthusiasts? Yeah, the country is prying for a populist revolution, and we get reform of a Muslim chairman who don't want mass deportations, who want to allow men into women's prisons. What the hell is going on? Every stance the reform stood on, that was the populist reason for people wanting to support them. They've gone back on. Well, they're going back on. They're going back on because they're coming, just becoming another What did he say? He said it in a recent interview. We're going to be to the left of the conservatives on immigration. Well, that's not why people are supporting you. People are supporting you. People are supporting you. To close the borders, mass deportations, end the immigration get rid of the migrants that are here illegally, and start putting British people first. You're angry. I'm angry, yeah. I'm angry because I see it all as a lie, and people get upset when you start telling them the lie. Nigel Farage had a meeting recently, a reform dinner. Yeah, it was 25,000 pound a ticket for the head table. The entire head table was Pakistani Muslims at reform dinner. So yeah, I'm angry. Yeah, I'm angry because I believe the British public are putting their faith in another party that's going to betray him. That's what I believe. Now,

  Peter McCormack

  unfortunately, could that be bridge that if you was to sit with Nigel, like, did he contact you? There was a tweet once. It was like a message

  Tommy Robinson

  that's me taking the piss. Me on the wind up, man, because I missed this corner. I was thinking, No, do you know? No, Nigel. It's like Nigel said on national TV that I have convictions for violence against women. Yeah, this is a man who believes he's in a position. He got upset because Kenny Baden not questioned the membership of reform yet. He wants to sit whilst I'm on solitary confinement. This while I'm annoyed. Yeah, I'm on social confinement. My ex wife had to put out a big statement. She had to tell my children before they go to school, when you go to school today, that people might be saying your dad's violent against me. Yeah, it's from, that's come from Nigel Farage, just lying. Where did he get that from? He just made up. He made up Joe when I went to jail. And so if you pull up Nigel Farage, when I went to jail for reporting outside the Leeds Crown Court case. I can dig up this footage when I was recording outside Leeds who did the establishment push out for the interviews on TV, Nigel Farage. Nigel Farage then comes and justifies my imprisonment, even though everything was found to be flawed and illegal, He never apologized for that. He justified whilst in prison. This time I'm in jail free, Tommy starts trending worldwide thanks to Elon Musk, who comes out again to justify my imprisonment again. Nigel Farage, he's a criminal. He committed contempt. Now, Nigel 160, 7 million people watched the documentary. They know what I'm in jail for. I'm in jail because I told the truth. Now, Nigel didn't have to come out and support me at all. He didn't have to support me, yeah. He just didn't have to lie and attack me, which is what he's continuously done. If you look at when we had the Brexit rally, far right thugs and all tattoos all over them, yeah, go for you. Well, according to Nigel's elitist view, because that's what Nigel is. Nigel's a city banker, elite. Yeah, you're a thug, you're working class, You're scum. Yeah, that's Nigel's view. Well, he reached out to you. Well, if you reach out to me, I say, what I say? What did you do to Rupert low? Explain it. Just explain. Because ruper Low says that the reason he was kicked out of reform was because he wouldn't let down, let go on the Islamic rape gang issue. Yeah, so he was kicked out again. I asked questions about Z Yusuf, unfortunately. So

  Peter McCormack

  I think Robinson, frankly, was out there asking for trouble. I don't think it was a very bright thing to do. What's his

  Tommy Robinson

  imprisonment case is not heroic in any way at all, and that, of course, will surprise some of you.

  Peter McCormack

  Do you think he's done that because he's scared of you or scared of the public's opinion of you? The

  Tommy Robinson

  public Nigel walk the street at me, mate and see the public opinion of me? Yeah, yeah. But it's what I bought and others bought? No, I think that Nigel Anyone, anyone? I think that the moment ruper Lowe was finished within reform was when at the party conference, he got a big round of applause for Nigel Farage. That was it. He's gotta go. So

  Peter McCormack

  there's no bridge in that. That's you think reform is just a waste of time? I

  Tommy Robinson

  unfortunately, yeah, for me, I believe that the party the only party, unless you what? Nigel doesn't care at present, yeah, because there's no other party. So Nigel can sit there. He can say, Well, I'll let men in women's prisons. Yeah. He can do all this. I'll do this. I'm not going to do mass deportations. I'll bring shamina begnum back. He can say all these things, because unfortunately, the public who are upset have got no other choice other and conservatives, labor or reform? Yeah, now to push reform on those issues. If you want to look at Nigel Farage his policies over the next six months, look now what Ben Habib and Rupert I was saying, because that's what's going to happen. They're going to push him. I believe Rupert. I believe Ben Habib. New Party Advance is now 30,000 members, and. You've you've come out and said You support them. I've joined advance because I watched benabe For a long time. He's been here twice. We've had has he been here? Yeah, I think he's good, yeah. I think he's articulate. I think he's a politician, which are all things I don't want to be as well. So when I'm saying I've joined advance, yeah, I'm not taking over advance. I haven't got a lead position in advance. I haven't got any position in advance. But I believe that the arc, our movement of people, which we've created, which I believe, on the 13th September, you've probably seen upwards of a million people coming together in London. Yeah, I believe there was a cultural revolution happening right now in Britain, and those people need a political home. And the way Richard Ty spoke about those people was that lot we don't want anything to do with. That lot. The derogatory and defamatory way that my supporters have been spoke about by reform is a disgrace. Yeah? The just snubbing them. Yeah? The only reform holder policy within that within their party, you have to sign an NDA. You're not allowed to show any support for Tommy Robinson if you want to be a counselor or an MP, etc. So this is a party that doesn't believe in free speech at all. They do not believe in free speech. Nigel doesn't believe in free speech. Nigel when he led UKIP, this what? Because I've got, I've watched all of this when Nigel led UKIP, and they had an opportunity within the European Union to align themselves with groups. So there's groups together. So you have the Freedom Coalition audit, and it'll be Gert Wilders with Le Pen with Victor Auburn. All these groups will be under one banner. Nigel, even back then, refused to align with them, because he called them all far right. Well, those groups that he now called far right are winning elections. Nigel, yeah. And then, and my point is, people try and make an excuse for Nigel, saying, Well, no, the reason he's doing it is just to get in power. Well, Donald Trump didn't do that to get in power. Yeah. Donald Trump told the world what he's going to do, and then when he gets in power, he's on a mandate to do that. Yeah, Le Pen, do you think Le Pen's got a Muslim chairman? Do you think Wilders has a Muslim chairman? Now, how are you going to tackle the Islamization of this country, which is what needs tackling, with a Muslim chairman? You're not, yeah, when we already see the power that Yusuf has, we look at what happened with Rupert low. We look at what Nigel done to Ben Habib, in fact, we look at what Nigel done to everyone and anyone who rose up. Yeah, Nigel has never been a team player. It's about Nigel and anyone who gets remotely close to being anywhere near Nigel. Nigel ego makes him crucify them and end them, and that's what happened. So I look at Rupert low and I look at Ben Abe and I look at their I know Rupert Lowe's not leading the party, but Ben abeeb is. And I believe that our movement needs a political home, and I believe that if enough people join that, because people say, Yeah, but reform has got the momentum. Well, that's happened in 12 to 18 months. Reform could have been called any name, yeah, and it would have took that momentum. It's not saying special and Nigel Farage has done the country's ready for change. Have you spoke with Rupert? I've never spoken with Rupert. Oh no, because I always felt like, I felt like, if it was Rupert, Nigel and Ben be together, sing on the same page. Because I think whether you see where my problem is there again, how many of them free, working class? I

  Conor McCormack

  don't know. So why? So why is politics a no go for you? No pop because you we need

  Tommy Robinson

  another my power. I want my position to be in journalism, but I believe that I want a home for our for our movement, and a home politically for our movement that doesn't betray them, that doesn't neglect them, that doesn't take the piss out of them, and I believe that's what reform are doing with the working class, even Nigel sitting with his pint of beer, and that is for the working class. That's to pretend he's won the lads. Does anyone here actually believe Nigel Farage has ever been on a working class estate after 7pm other than for a photo shoot?

  Unknown Speaker

  I don't think you

  Conor McCormack

  answered comments question, but that party needs a leader which fine the parties for the for the working class, yeah, if not you, then who? Because Ben Habib, isn't it as great as he is, he's not a leader.

  Tommy Robinson

  Well, Ben Habib, when he set up advance, I believe it was supposed to be for Rupert low to lead. He wanted it, yeah, but Rupert, maybe Rupert will change when he sees the explosion in support for advance. Maybe ruper low. I think ruper Low could be Donald the British Donald Trump. Yeah, I believe he could. When I listen to him, when I hear what he says. But I have my trust. After watching I know who's in the team around Ben Habib, and I fully trust them. There's some people who have helped me over the last five years with my documentaries, with the work I do, and they're very close within the advanced team. So I believe that I have trust within that advanced team, that they will go on, and if enough support is given to them, let's see where they can go.

  Peter McCormack

  We like Ben Habib a lot. I like Ben we're we're big fans. I still don't think you answer Connor question there. Why not? Why not? What politics? Why not? I mean any you pick the right seat, you'll win it.

  Conor McCormack

  You have support, yeah, yeah. Let's see.

  Tommy Robinson

  Let's see, one step at a time. Let us mail September 13. Let's do the biggest event Britain scene. Let's talk about that, yeah. Let's talk about September 13. What we've done, as I said, we bought all these people together. So it wasn't just me. We come up with a name, unite the kingdom. We brought them all together. And we said, Right, let's focus on British cultural identity, because unfortunately, we've been made to feel ashamed of who we are. Of course, we need to make it cool to be British, yeah. So how you how to make cool to be British? The young tick tockers, the young boxers, the young athletes, all of them align into this same idea, yeah, which is what we had our first one. So our first event, unite the kingdom. And remember, I've held 5060, 7080, national demonstrations. I've done them with the English Defense League. I've done them with pagida. I know how the police operate. I know how to work with them. I know the do's, the don'ts, the what ifs how we how we stop trouble. So we have a clear policy no face coverings. Because I believe, in fact, if you Google special demonstration squad. Yeah, Google it. Special demonstration squad. These are British infiltration groups by government whose job it is to infiltrate legitimate protest groups, not just like ours. You might be an animal rights protest group. They will infiltrate you to get intelligence, to break you, to cause violence as well. They go in and cause the trouble on the street in order to take away your legitimacy of your message. Yeah, so they want to portray you as humans. How do we stop that? No face coverings, which? We had a meeting, my first meeting with the police. Remember what had happened since October 7? Yeah, with the mass rallies, my first meeting with the police, I know, I know you can hold a static protest wherever you want. They can't stop you. Yeah. So when I went for the first meeting with the police, I said, lads, I'm going to cut the bullshit. I'm going to speak straight, because it's the only thing they understand as well the police, because they'll just make you jump through hoops and then pull the carpet from underneath you. I've done it too many times, so I said, right, if I want to hold a static protest now, I'm going to hold one in Tower Hamlets on the same day that there's a Palestinian man? Yeah. I said, how's that going to be to police? For the Metropolitan Police Force? I said, just asking, like, it's going to be difficult, right? And it's going to cause disruption, and possibly this can lead to violence. But I have a lot of people that are fed up in our country, so let's come to an agreement, lads, I'm going to work with you and everything. We're going to go nowhere near Palestine, really. In fact, we'll change the day if there's one. Yeah? We don't want to go Tower Hamlets. We don't want to go any Muslim community anywhere near them, yeah, but we want to have our day and our day to protest, and we want the same right, rights as I went through. Here's what Black Lives Matter done, here's what the Palestinians do, here's what they all do. Here's all their demonstrations that you allow? Yeah? So what we want is in Parliament Square. We want a screen one presentation. We want music and what celebration, and we will do everything to maintain order. And the next thing I want to ask, which is going to seem strange, is, we don't want you there, yeah, because what we've noticed at demonstrations is when you turn out of riot shields, it provokes a reaction. Now you don't need to be there. Why are you there? That's the simple Why are you there? To prevent disorder against who the opposition? Okay, so where are the opposition? The opposition. So if we're going to demonstrate here and the opposition, are there, we know there's one flash point of a road here. So as our supporters come past here, we're going to put 100 of our own security on that on that road. You please don't need to be there. We will make sure our supporters do not go near there, and our supporters won't attack our own stewards or our own security. If you have a problem, officers with certain people within our movement, we will give you a designated security officer. You come and approach that security officer, we will deal with the people in the crowd, yeah. So what are they feeling about this? They sat back and said, okay. I said, well, the alternative is, lad. So I'm not joking. Fuck around with us on one of these points, I'm gonna organize protests in Tower Hamlets. That's it. So I don't want to. But if you fuck if you take away any of our rights, we want the same rights every other community has. The Muslim community can march. The far left can march. Everyone can march. British Patriots are not allowed to march, and when we've tried to on St George's Day or any of these events, look what's happened. Yeah, and it's happened where they all the media end up saying, two tier policing. You have a chance to write this. We have a chance to write it. We want to work with you. We don't want people attacking police officers, and we don't want you attacking

  Peter McCormack

  us. Isn't it all wonky, though? Yeah, it was so wonky. It's but

  Tommy Robinson

  it. But from this first meeting with the police, we held our first event. They didn't show the police shot. They're in the back streets. Stay in the back streets. You're not needed. Yeah, we will police it. And we did, and at the end of the demonstration, we thanked them. Now, if you look at where we've come in 18 months, there was this massive clash every time there was a patriotic rally with the police. I don't fear that for the first September, in fact, at the end of the demonstrations, we're thanking them, and our supporters are thanking the police. And I've not I've seen a total shift in police attitude towards us, in how we operate, even when I was arrested recently, the police are supportive. Remember, the police are seeing it all, the problems we see. You'd see the problems you see in Bedford. What do you think the police see? They see it

  Peter McCormack

  all. They know the talk to them. They they're fed up as well. They're so fed up. They're stretched. They're underfunded. They spending too much time on paperwork. Dei is taking over the whole police Corporation, yeah, and, and everyone's slagging them off, and they're like, I'm just trying to do my job here the police. Honestly, I haven't met a police. Officer. I dislike Bedford. They're all fucking great. Every single one of everyone's come to see me. I've, you know, I really like them. Their problem isn't them. It's the hierarchy above them. It's the

  Tommy Robinson

  political policing. Yeah, the police is Mark Rowley, it's a political policing. So most of people at the top of police, the people understand they're elected. They're putting put in a position. They're like politicians. They're like politicians. They're not there to police. They're there for politics, usually controlled by Labor government. Now, yeah, so as we've said, we've had these agreements. We've gone from 30,000 we then held 27th of July, where we had 100,000 where that's never been seen. Patriots have never come together in the capital C in that way, with zero arrests, zero arrests at either of the events. Then I go to prison. Yeah, they detain me. This work gets to put politics again. I'm out of the country. Obviously, I've breached this civil injunction, and I've played a film on the 27th of July. Do you know how things work out in a certain way? That film was released three years prior to that, it was released in America. They didn't come for me. I come back to UK. Organized my first protest over Armistice Day. They then contacted my solicitors, the Attorney General. Did we are contemplating prosecuting you for the leaked film, which was played in America at cinema. So they're contemplating me. So at that point, I thought, well, I've got a decision to make. You they're threatening me basically, because I've organized a protest. They're basically saying, Stop, stop the protest. So I made a video addressed to the Attorney General, basically saying, fuck you. Right, if you want to come for me for the film that's currently on 200,000 views. Then come for me, because you're going to bring the world's attention on the film. So then the film's in two places on two YouTube channels at this time, 27th of July is coming up a week for 27th of July, it's deleted off both the channels. Yeah. So I ring my solicitor, I get a high end call saying it's gone. Films gone. So at this point the film's gone from the internet. It's nowhere. So I ring my solicitor and say, right, they're doing me. She's like what I said. They've deleted the film, I said, so that means now they're going to prosecute me, and no one's going to see the film, because they're going to come and Nicky, I'm going to put straight in jail. No one's going to get to watch that film. So 27th of July, 100,000 people to foul square. I'm shitting myself because I sat my kids down. Said, kids, I have to do this now. Yeah, because, and I wanted their permission, I guess because I know I'm gonna go to jail for doing it. Well, this stuff affects them, right? Yeah, quite, totally. They've had a difficult time schooling, just all

  Peter McCormack

  of it. Do you do you think? Do you think they're gonna come for you before September the 13th?

  Tommy Robinson

  No, no, I don't generally what? Maybe I'm stupid. But when that 27th July, I played the film, 100,000 people. Yeah, I played into foul square. 100,000 people. 900,000 people watching live. There you go. Here's the film. Now, come and get me. Yeah, and then I leave to go abroad, because I know they're coming to get me as I leave as I 27th July. 28 July. Get arrested on terrorism charge. I'm nicked on, yeah, because it's only because they want to get in your phone, right? That's what I believe. Yeah, they want access to my phone, but that's not a free country, yeah, where they create bullshit in order to look at what you're up to. And under terrorism legislation, some people may not know this, but you have no right to remain silent, and you have to give them your PIN codes, and they can only enforce this legislation at borders and airports. So they knew what they were doing. They knew. So they grabbed me. They grabbed me. They detained me. I'm on trial for this. October 13. They grabbed me. They detained me. They said, why? I answered all their questions for six hours, which are all about my legitimate they wanted to know Germany is. They want to know who's operating. We are. What's your plans? How you going to stop? He said, How you going to stop the great replacement? How you can deal with a great replacement? So I thought that was a thought. That was a hoax conspiracy. Yeah, was all bullshit, charming. So they're asking all these questions, and then it gets to my phone. I said, Look, you're not having you are not having access to my phone. I'm a journalist, and they're my sources of information, and you're not having them because in Rotherham, Rochdale, you were cooperating and working with the gangs. You're working with them in Telford, this is all proven. It's not my opinion. Yeah, so you're not having information for who's giving me information about your corrupt police officers or about rape gangs. So did you win that battle? No, I've got caught. I've got trial on September, on October 13. So it's after. Just gonna say if it was before, it's after, it's after, but what's before? Because tuffs will be worried, you'll have to run it. I know I didn't even have to brief tufts. I just and that was when I was coming back from the UK, and I'm like, Liam, I need you to, can you compare if I'm in jail? He said, Yeah, that was it. And then I landed back in the UK. Look at, well, that's when them lot turn up. National demo

  Peter McCormack

  united, these lock turn up. We should explain, sorry, so people listening who aren't watching it, we've got

  Tommy Robinson

  train. See, I bet, I bet, if you go on, the coaches are free or subsidized, and they're subsidized by the union. See that,

  Peter McCormack

  holy shit. So what we're seeing is a poster for the same day, September the 13th. Every 10 people of each coach march against fascism. Unite versus Tommy. Robinson stand up to races. So they want to counter protest.

  Tommy Robinson

  They want to counter protest, but this is where, but that should be blocked. Uh, no, it shouldn't. They should be able to have their protest, but not confrontational, no, not in proximity of us, which is where we've had the negotiations with the police. Yeah, right. So Waterloo is the only way you will get into our demonstration. Yeah, you will not get in any other way. And the reason being, because what we'd usually have, you'd have our demonstration here, you might have lads from one area of London, another area London, and they'd try walking in, and as they're trying to walk in, you might get clashes with this lot. So what we tell everyone is, get to Waterloo, yeah. And then every all of our supporters need to come through Waterloo. Yeah. Now the others, their demonstration is probably by Trafalgar Square, which will be fortified. By the police. But this has gone. This is weeks and weeks of work with the police. Yeah, we've got another meeting now on the 26th then we do a walk through with the with the police that week as well, where we go through everything, where we walk. So basically, as we walk down and say, Where, where are the potential flash points of this demonstration for our supporters, yeah, where they potentially be confronted by some of this lot. When I say potentially they're not going to get near them, because the police, the police have worked very well in last four demonstrations, incredibly well, yeah, in keeping the two parts groups apart. But say, for example, there's a road here, and their supporters will be here. Police will be here, our sports be there. We will literally put 100 security on it in front of the police? Yeah, so this is negotiation. We're working with the police now because we don't want our supporters rushing towards police. Yep, we just can't

  Peter McCormack

  have it. So what will be success for you on that day? obviously no violence, but

  Tommy Robinson

  no violence. Success is when people walk away and feel what they've felt on the last three everyone's walked away and felt, wow, we've done what they've done for so long, they've made people on our side of politics or our mindset, feel fringe, feel isolated and feel alone. You feel like it's just you. But when you turn up in this 100,000 other people, and they've all got their union jacks, and they're all having a beautiful day, then you realize you're not alone, yeah? And you're not alone, you are the mainstream. They want you to feel alone, yeah? So I think that a success for us on 13th September will be peaceful. We've got some we've got lots of music. We've got a band playing, a gos black gospel band playing, we've got a girl playing on piano another song. She's coming from Canada. We've got another gentleman coming from Australia. We've got 110 mauis Coming to do the hacker wild. It's gonna be what you gonna do? The hacker? No, I think a success, like each one of them. I remember at the end, and we didn't really take it in until afterwards, because at the time you're just in the middle of it, when, to be honest, I have a terrible day on this day, anxiety, stress, yeah, so I don't really get to enjoy it. And I remember my mum saying to me, mum said, make sure you enjoy it. Stephen, yeah. I remember standing there on September 27 on July 27 as I was looking at all the crowd singing, and I said, Mum, I'm enjoying it. Because I took that moment to just look and think, I'm enjoying it, man, like this is what we're but a success will be peaceful. Remember a lot of our supporters. I understand their anger, and they are angry. People are justifiably angry at what's happened to Britain, at their feeling of lack of security, of the what's happened to the country. If they want to send a message to the establishment, then you're going to undo everything we've been trying to do by acting aggressively in any way and what has happened at the previous demonstrations is our own supporters, which I appeal to everyone again, we need to police ourselves. If someone comes, they've had too many drinks, and they're stepping out of line, we need to put them in line. We need to put them in line because they were going to undo

  Peter McCormack

  everything we're trying to do. Yeah, yeah. One bad incident because they're shitting themselves, right? Clearly the assumption, yeah. I mean, it's like when we do our private security in Bedford. I go to the briefing every Saturday morning, and I just say, just as a reminder, if someone comes and gets in your face, shouts at you, tries to agitate you have to stay calm, because one bad reaction can undermine the whole thing. And obviously the establishment is shitting themselves about this.

  Tommy Robinson

  We what I watched, which was a great moment. Was on July 27 because as we walk past, there's like some stairs along by the Thames, and there was some opposition there, and they're all shouting abuse. Now that's a real potential flash point that we weren't expecting, because they shouldn't be there. So they've managed to get into our side. Yeah, a handful of them. Everyone's clap. Everyone's just clapped and waved as they walked past. We've nailed it. We've nailed it. We've now. We've nailed it and nailed it in the sense of, look, the average age of our support is now a 5060, year old female. Yeah. So many people are bringing their children to this. So many friends I had that would have come before as lads, a group of men, a lot now, mate, I'm bringing my missus, and kids like my grand nan and granddad are coming. So Joe, what they've managed to do in Britain was to make the entire public ashamed of their identity. And that's partly I'll say this is as much. This isn't about Islam. This demonstration is not about Islam. It's about a lack of cultural identity. And when people are looking at their culture disappearing, and they're feeling a need for it, they're coming together for it. So there's a coming together here, which is why we've made it about free speech. It's a free speech Festival. It's why we've bought music and entertainment and we've got speakers from all over the world coming now. People think, well, what's the need for these different speakers? Because they can give inspiration to show what is possible. Look at what they've done in Germany under the AfD now look at what some of these political groups have done. I know when I first started speaking in 2020 in 2009 like the Swedish Democrats, won one half percent of the vote. Think they're now 24% they're in government all of the groups that were Gert builders. I know there's another election coming up now, but he won. He won. He'll win again,

  Peter McCormack

  by the way. Conor, have you seen any of Tommy's old interviews? Search up for Tommy Paxman, just see how young he is. It's funny. Well, listen, look you. I mean, what I would say is that I, like someone like me, feels a little bit with it. What did we do with the minute you announced it? We put it in our diary. Let me just double check. I want to see if I can actually prove that we'll be there. And you know

  Tommy Robinson

  what's changed? It's nearly amount and you know what we done last time. So what we do is the alternative media, we give press passes. Yeah, and the Daily Mail contact us. Was quite funny, because we're at the event on July 27 and Daily Mail have contacted us for press pass. So I've replied saying, Go fuck yourselves, as if you're getting the press pass. And then we read the headline, and the headline was calling everyone football, fucks, football, thugs in London. And I remember I brought it up as I'm giving my speech. I said, Here's what the Daily Mail are calling you. Yeah, bearing in mind there's 100,000 people here, men, women, children, all having a beautiful celebration, the media are just digging their own grave. So at this event, alternative media will be giving press passes that will allow them access to interview all of our all of our politicians, all of our guest speakers, and that'll be something that the mainstream media have totally become irrelevant. It doesn't matter what you say, Yeah, because the Tick Tock is the YouTubers, the streamers will be here in their in their hundreds, covering this event. It's going to be the most watched event the London scene. Yeah, and give the truth. You know, if you come as a stream artist, I'd say, if you come and there's problems, show the problems,

  Peter McCormack

  we'll be there. We've actually, we might have an FA Cup game that day, the only, the only place better we drew, yeah, imagine we drew Bedford town in the FA Cup, and it's on that day. Well, what do we do? What do we No, look, we'll be we'll be there. But like I said, I felt kind of a little bit of a fraud in that. I probably should have gone down the rabbit hole a long time ago. Not just slacked you off without doing, but you've opened it up to make it easier for people who maybe held some views privately, were scared to say it publicly, that they can talk about these things publicly, just at least have the conversation just, I guess. Look, we could, we could talk for hours, but one final thing, if there are critics going to be listening to be listened to this they're going to be Terry's going to be listening. What would you say to these

  Tommy Robinson

  people? I'd say, Terry, I'm not perfect. Never have been. Never will be. I'm a normal working class kid from Luton Town. It should not have been left to people like me to have this conversation. I only wish that politicians step forward, 15 years ago and spoke about these issues, but unfortunately, none of them did. Still none of them do. So unfortunately, it's been left to people like us. So I don't claim to be sitting there polishing my Halo. I'm no angel, okay, but my heart has always been in the right place. We have shifted the discussion in important conversations that have been forgotten, hid, covered up, neglected, and all I care about is making sure that British people are put first. That doesn't mean white people. Terry, okay, and I'll guarantee you, Terry, I don't know where you're from, Terry, but I guarantee my friends, friendship group is more diverse than yours. So many of the people I love are not whites. To throw along false accusations of racism or far right to try and hinder because you see people doing what you're doing here to Peter is the reason that these conversations were not had for last 15 years, which ultimately is the reason many 1000s of girls were raped in this country, because people are too scared to have the conversation. Because if they had the conversation, people like you, Terry, just scream racist or far right and start trying to demonize and attack people for having conversations. You should welcome conversation. Conversations, because if everything I'm saying is wrong, it'll be proven us wrong. People will watch this and they can say in the comments, he's an idiot, he's a fraud, or they can believe that the argument we're having. So there should be more free speech on this issue. Terry, come out from under your rock. Get yourself down there on 13th of September and enjoy your British identity. Okay,

  Peter McCormack

  yeah, take that Terry. Take that Terry. Take that Terry. Well, listen, look again. By the way, did you find the video?

  Unknown Speaker

  He's a young scam Penny,

  Tommy Robinson

  no pact, man. So I went on, I went on that, and all the left was, it was the first big interview I'd had, and everyone was like, You're gonna, he's gonna get annihilated. This is great. I was shitting myself, but I used to treat everything. Everything was a bit of a laugh. Yeah? So when I went down, so they messaged me, when you come on the show, I said, Yeah, you've got to pay for food. This is to news night. Yeah, you've got to pay for food. They said, Yeah, that's fine. So I bought six people with me. We went to me company, which is me company, expensive restaurant. So when me company is when the BBC was opposite White City. And we sat there. We had jugs of cocktails. We all had massive we had starters, mains, desert, the woman from newsnights Come over to get me, and there's like, 1000 pound bill sitting there. I said, Yeah, you got to get the bill. She goes, we can't get this bill. Yeah, six of you. How can we get this bill? I said, Well, we're live, and we on the show in a bit. I said, Yeah. I said, we don't get the bill. We're not live. And then the BBC ended up footing that bill. We've gone and sat there. I was shitting myself, you know, at the end of that program, when the cameras went off, Jeremy Paxman sat there with the cat, with the team, and he said, Do you know what he just said there? He said, he said, Because I pointed out to him, you don't know anyone who's hooked on hair, insulting by Muslim gangs. Do you Jeremy, I do? You don't know anyone who's been killed by Muslim gang. Do I do? You don't anyone who's been brave. So he said all those points he just made to us. He's right. We don't always talk about

  Peter McCormack

  well, Paxman doesn't go easy. No, you look nervous.

  Tommy Robinson

  And when I got home, so my mum, up until that point, had begged me and begged me and cried her eyes out. Stop, Stephen, stop. Yeah, English Defense League. She was threatened with her job. She worked at the Catholic school. Threats against the family. The house is getting targeted all these things. She said, Please stop. I walked in after that. She went, you were fucking brilliant. You were brilliant. Stephen. Was Well, thanks, Mom.

  Peter McCormack

  So she still calls you, Stephen, yeah, she still calls me, Stephen. Well, listen, look, yeah, apologies. Have been a dick in the past. Don't worry. Yeah, I learned from it. But listen, look, I'm really intrigued to see what people think of this. And we will be on there on September the 13th. And look, agree with you, disagree with you. We should all agree on free speech. So, yeah, keep doing things. Try and stay out of

  Tommy Robinson

  jail. I'll try. My best mate, the last thing I want to do, John Petri me, more than anything, is going to jail. Yeah, well, because, if it's pretty soul destroying, sitting on soldier confinement seven months, there's loads more I wanted

  Peter McCormack

  to ask you about. We'll do it again. We'll do it again sometime. But listen, look, just keep doing your thing. We'll be there September the 13th. And do you wanna pimp your channel again?

  Tommy Robinson

  Tr books.co.uk, you want this for the for the demo? It's nationware.co.uk. All

  Peter McCormack

  right. Tommy, Cheers, thank you. Cheers, and fuck moving. You.